5 ms·

> That said more media coverage around this could paint Trader Joe's as a bully and be more damaging to their brand than an unauthorized seller. It's certainly

> That said more media coverage around this could paint Trader Joe's as a bully and be more damaging to their brand than an unauthorized seller. It's certainly damaged their brand in my eyes, and it's not painting them as bullies: they're being bullies. This is a person who's buying a product fairly, taking it to a place where that product doesn't exist, adding a minor markup, and selling it. There's absolutely nothing grey about this practice, it's 100% honest and legal. For Trader Joe's to sue him for doing something that's completely within his rights is beyond loathsome. He's a customer who's buying a huge amount of their products at retail price, they should be sending him thank you letters. I think I might actually stop shopping at Trader Joes over this, as much as it pains me. It's just utterly repugnant behavior on their part.

Retric 12y ago
He calls it "Pirate Joes" and resells their products. If nothing else your legally required to defend your trademark or you lose it. They also lose out on quality control issues which could be a major issue. Now their unlikely to win, but by suing and losing they gain some protection. If nothing else if someone get's sick they can say look we tried to stop him but we don't have a choice. On the other hand if they say it's ok that's going to open them to liability.
- virtue3 12y ago
  "Right to Parody" from wikipedia (USA law but fuck it let's go for it): n Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music Inc[22] the Supreme Court recognized parody as a potential fair use, even when done for profit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody Technically, you could probably do it in the states in a location that trader joe's isn't. Although I'd definitely have a very good lawyer on retainer if I was thinking of that :/
  - ObviousScience 12y ago
    Parody requires that it be a work of art. Are you implying that his buying their products, transporting them, and reselling them is some kind of performance art which is criticizing Trader Joes in some fashion? And that this guy is going to stand in front of a judge and claim he's not in the business of selling merchandise, he's a performer?
  - lauraura 12y ago
    I'm pretty certain fair use doesn't apply when you're making money off the trademark you're using in "fair use".
    - icebraining 12y ago
      From the link posted above: In Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music Inc, the Supreme Court recognized parody as a potential fair use, even when done for profit.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  > They also lose out on quality control issues which could be a major issue. I don't feel that this is an issue in this case. Hallat only buys pre-packaged foods and I'm sure that Canada's food regulatory bodies don't allow the sale of expired food. "Pretty much anything I can buy in the U.S., I can legally import into Canada. There are permits required for meat, seafood and dairy. We stick to vegetarian packaged nonperishable items." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag.. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag....
  - imanaccount247 12y ago
    >I'm sure that Canada's food regulatory bodies don't allow the sale of expired food. I don't think they sell anything that needs an expiration date. Best before dates are not expiration dates: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/information-for-consumers/fact-sheets/date/eng/1332357469487/1332357545633 http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/information-for-consumers/f...
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  So 'Trader Joes' owns 'Joes' as well. I'd better tell the local bar up the road called 'Jumping Joes' that they are infringing on copyright.
  - mattl 12y ago
    Trademark.
  - lclarkmichalek 12y ago
    No, but courts generally do consider a thing called "context" in these cases.
alexqgb 12y ago
Repugnant? That's pretty severe language coming from someone who is being as...(how to put this politely?)...as economical with the facts as you are Seriously, why not save the outrage for cases where you can restate the case without having to gloss over the bits that make your outrage seem ridiculous?
shalmanese 12y ago
What makes Trader Joes Trader Joes is that they carefully curate the entire experience and having a loss of control over how they are presented to the customer is a big deal. What if, one of the buyers transporting food improperly chills some steaks and 15 people come down with food poisoning. Then, you have the media blaring out "OVER A DOZEN PEOPLE SICKENED BY TAINTED MEAT FROM TRADER JOES"?. It doesn't matter that the media report is inaccurate, all of a sudden, you have people associating Trader Joes with unsafe food handling practices and the PR damage from one incident alone is more than any possible profit they derive from this tiny store. So, while I understand how the practice is entirely legal, I can also see how it's a nightmare from Trader Joes perspective and how they'd rather it all go away.
- namidark 12y ago
  Trader Joe's has had quite a few food recalls lately.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  The meat example is a good reason, but it doesn't apply in this case. > "Pretty much anything I can buy in the U.S., I can legally import into Canada. There are permits required for meat, seafood and dairy. We stick to vegetarian packaged nonperishable items." > "I would prefer Trader Joe's accept my long-standing offer to follow guidance on how they would like me to operate," Hallatt says in an email." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag-it-trader-joes-tells-pirate-grocer-in-canada http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag... It's really difficult to change the quality of unopened, non-expired, pre-packaged food. The more I read about this, the less reasonable the company behind Trader Joe's seems. Even companies like Apple allow other channels to sell their products.
  - madeofpalk 12y ago
    > Even companies like Apple allow other channels to sell their products. Not really. Well, Only channels that Apple allows will are allowed to resell their products. Apple does not take too kindly to the 'gray market' products and unauthorised resellers.

Retric 12y ago

He calls it "Pirate Joes" and resells their products. If nothing else your legally required to defend your trademark or you lose it. They also lose out on quality control issues which could be a major issue. Now their unlikely to win, but by suing and losing they gain some protection. If nothing else if someone get's sick they can say look we tried to stop him but we don't have a choice. On the other hand if they say it's ok that's going to open them to liability.

virtue3 12y ago
"Right to Parody" from wikipedia (USA law but fuck it let's go for it): n Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music Inc[22] the Supreme Court recognized parody as a potential fair use, even when done for profit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody Technically, you could probably do it in the states in a location that trader joe's isn't. Although I'd definitely have a very good lawyer on retainer if I was thinking of that :/
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  Parody requires that it be a work of art. Are you implying that his buying their products, transporting them, and reselling them is some kind of performance art which is criticizing Trader Joes in some fashion? And that this guy is going to stand in front of a judge and claim he's not in the business of selling merchandise, he's a performer?
- lauraura 12y ago
  I'm pretty certain fair use doesn't apply when you're making money off the trademark you're using in "fair use".
  - icebraining 12y ago
    From the link posted above: In Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music Inc, the Supreme Court recognized parody as a potential fair use, even when done for profit.
chaostheory 12y ago
> They also lose out on quality control issues which could be a major issue. I don't feel that this is an issue in this case. Hallat only buys pre-packaged foods and I'm sure that Canada's food regulatory bodies don't allow the sale of expired food. "Pretty much anything I can buy in the U.S., I can legally import into Canada. There are permits required for meat, seafood and dairy. We stick to vegetarian packaged nonperishable items." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag.. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag....
- imanaccount247 12y ago
  >I'm sure that Canada's food regulatory bodies don't allow the sale of expired food. I don't think they sell anything that needs an expiration date. Best before dates are not expiration dates: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/information-for-consumers/fact-sheets/date/eng/1332357469487/1332357545633 http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/information-for-consumers/f...
cmdrfred 12y ago
So 'Trader Joes' owns 'Joes' as well. I'd better tell the local bar up the road called 'Jumping Joes' that they are infringing on copyright.
- mattl 12y ago
  Trademark.
- lclarkmichalek 12y ago
  No, but courts generally do consider a thing called "context" in these cases.

alexqgb 12y ago

Repugnant? That's pretty severe language coming from someone who is being as...(how to put this politely?)...as economical with the facts as you are Seriously, why not save the outrage for cases where you can restate the case without having to gloss over the bits that make your outrage seem ridiculous?

shalmanese 12y ago

What makes Trader Joes Trader Joes is that they carefully curate the entire experience and having a loss of control over how they are presented to the customer is a big deal. What if, one of the buyers transporting food improperly chills some steaks and 15 people come down with food poisoning. Then, you have the media blaring out "OVER A DOZEN PEOPLE SICKENED BY TAINTED MEAT FROM TRADER JOES"?. It doesn't matter that the media report is inaccurate, all of a sudden, you have people associating Trader Joes with unsafe food handling practices and the PR damage from one incident alone is more than any possible profit they derive from this tiny store. So, while I understand how the practice is entirely legal, I can also see how it's a nightmare from Trader Joes perspective and how they'd rather it all go away.

namidark 12y ago
Trader Joe's has had quite a few food recalls lately.
chaostheory 12y ago
The meat example is a good reason, but it doesn't apply in this case. > "Pretty much anything I can buy in the U.S., I can legally import into Canada. There are permits required for meat, seafood and dairy. We stick to vegetarian packaged nonperishable items." > "I would prefer Trader Joe's accept my long-standing offer to follow guidance on how they would like me to operate," Hallatt says in an email." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag-it-trader-joes-tells-pirate-grocer-in-canada http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217210915/bag... It's really difficult to change the quality of unopened, non-expired, pre-packaged food. The more I read about this, the less reasonable the company behind Trader Joe's seems. Even companies like Apple allow other channels to sell their products.
- madeofpalk 12y ago
  > Even companies like Apple allow other channels to sell their products. Not really. Well, Only channels that Apple allows will are allowed to resell their products. Apple does not take too kindly to the 'gray market' products and unauthorised resellers.