5 ms·

Looking through the specs the flight time is just 16-22 minutes. How close are we to some sort advancement in that area, as that seems to limit the possibilitie

Looking through the specs the flight time is just 16-22 minutes. How close are we to some sort advancement in that area, as that seems to limit the possibilities somewhat? Is this a 'when batteries become magical' thing?

robertfw 12y ago
Pretty much, the more magical (where magical=low weight + high capacity) the battery, the more flight time. At least on my fairly simple quad, the batteries are the most weighty item.
georgemcbay 12y ago
> Is this a 'when batteries become magical' thing? Basically, yes. To get more power you need a bigger battery, but if you have a bigger battery you are carrying more weight and thus need more power, so you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. Batteries are improving (and stronger/lighter materials to build with are helping as well), but nowhere near the sort of Moore-ish improvement we are used to seeing in other places.
_up 12y ago
Wing drones are much more efficient. Google tests them and they also can fly above a spot. But they are probably not ideal for filming.
- daviding 12y ago
  That makes sense. Are there any drones that combine that approach, i.e. like a V-22 Osprey? It seems like the 'modes' could be combined, weight willing..
  - baddox 12y ago
    There are plenty of custom-built VTOL models. Most are for fun (as is the case for the entire RC hobby), but I'm sure practical commercial ones could be built if there was really a market for them. Of course, small RC planes can have such ridiculous power to weight ratios and flight envelopes that the distances required for takeoff and landing can be very small. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d9Eg2s54PM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d9Eg2s54PM (from this extensive build log: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1816216 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1816216) A production example: http://www.birdseyeview.aero/ http://www.birdseyeview.aero/ One demonstrating autonomous flight with a 3D Robotics flight controller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEL1gQpDO28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEL1gQpDO28
yeahsure 12y ago
There are currently several attempts at using different battery technology that the now-widespread Lithium-Polymer to achieve long flight times: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/my-97minute-06second-record-quadcopter-flight http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/my-97minute-06second-rec...
toby 12y ago
If you're going to use the follow feature, it seems like it would be possible to run power cables down to a much larger battery in your backpack or something. Just an idea.
- atomicUpdate 12y ago
  There are a lot of logistical reasons why this is a really bad idea, but here are a few quick ones off the top of my head: 1.) I assume people would want to record themselves doing something a bit more interesting than just walking in a wide open area at the same pace where 100' of cable can't get snagged on anything. 2.) Any sort of quick changes in direction are going to tug on the wire, at worst risking causing the drone to crash, at best causing the video to take you out of frame. 3.) If there's any sort of speed involved, the drag of that wire in the wind will eat up power. 4.) The weight of 100' of cable will add up quickly, especially if you want it to be robust enough to handle being snagged/tugged. You certainly don't want a break in the cable, because a sudden loss of power will be catastrophic.
zobzu 12y ago
If you make it a lot bigger it flies a lot longer (40min for a 4kg multicopter for example ) If you make it an airplane it flies a heck of a lot longer (1 or 2 hours for a <1kg foam plane) So yeah.. batteries need to get magical or our power usage efficiency needs to get way better.
- namuol 12y ago
  Are there any long-range plane/quadcopter hybrids for consumers? Seems like it should be possible to get the best of both worlds
  - zobzu 12y ago
    Most build their own. Hybrids dont work well tho. Same problems as with the real scale hybrids. its hard to get propellers that will give you a lot of vertical thrust then not kill the glide ratio while still propulsion your horizontally (ie forward) as well. So some people simply have planes with vertical take off then the props rotate when you need to go faster/longer. Thats a lot of mechs thus less reliable tho - at least so far. Also the props are huge and thus cause a lot of drag still. See the v22 osprey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtGjzbVb76U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtGjzbVb76U for ex. Theres some experiments with covered props (but that lowers the efficiency at lower rotational speed) so that there is less friction when gliding forward.

robertfw 12y ago

Pretty much, the more magical (where magical=low weight + high capacity) the battery, the more flight time. At least on my fairly simple quad, the batteries are the most weighty item.

georgemcbay 12y ago

> Is this a 'when batteries become magical' thing? Basically, yes. To get more power you need a bigger battery, but if you have a bigger battery you are carrying more weight and thus need more power, so you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. Batteries are improving (and stronger/lighter materials to build with are helping as well), but nowhere near the sort of Moore-ish improvement we are used to seeing in other places.

_up 12y ago

Wing drones are much more efficient. Google tests them and they also can fly above a spot. But they are probably not ideal for filming.

daviding 12y ago
That makes sense. Are there any drones that combine that approach, i.e. like a V-22 Osprey? It seems like the 'modes' could be combined, weight willing..
- baddox 12y ago
  There are plenty of custom-built VTOL models. Most are for fun (as is the case for the entire RC hobby), but I'm sure practical commercial ones could be built if there was really a market for them. Of course, small RC planes can have such ridiculous power to weight ratios and flight envelopes that the distances required for takeoff and landing can be very small. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d9Eg2s54PM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d9Eg2s54PM (from this extensive build log: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1816216 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1816216) A production example: http://www.birdseyeview.aero/ http://www.birdseyeview.aero/ One demonstrating autonomous flight with a 3D Robotics flight controller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEL1gQpDO28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEL1gQpDO28

yeahsure 12y ago

There are currently several attempts at using different battery technology that the now-widespread Lithium-Polymer to achieve long flight times: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/my-97minute-06second-record-quadcopter-flight http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/my-97minute-06second-rec...

toby 12y ago

If you're going to use the follow feature, it seems like it would be possible to run power cables down to a much larger battery in your backpack or something. Just an idea.

atomicUpdate 12y ago
There are a lot of logistical reasons why this is a really bad idea, but here are a few quick ones off the top of my head: 1.) I assume people would want to record themselves doing something a bit more interesting than just walking in a wide open area at the same pace where 100' of cable can't get snagged on anything. 2.) Any sort of quick changes in direction are going to tug on the wire, at worst risking causing the drone to crash, at best causing the video to take you out of frame. 3.) If there's any sort of speed involved, the drag of that wire in the wind will eat up power. 4.) The weight of 100' of cable will add up quickly, especially if you want it to be robust enough to handle being snagged/tugged. You certainly don't want a break in the cable, because a sudden loss of power will be catastrophic.

zobzu 12y ago

If you make it a lot bigger it flies a lot longer (40min for a 4kg multicopter for example ) If you make it an airplane it flies a heck of a lot longer (1 or 2 hours for a <1kg foam plane) So yeah.. batteries need to get magical or our power usage efficiency needs to get way better.

namuol 12y ago
Are there any long-range plane/quadcopter hybrids for consumers? Seems like it should be possible to get the best of both worlds
- zobzu 12y ago
  Most build their own. Hybrids dont work well tho. Same problems as with the real scale hybrids. its hard to get propellers that will give you a lot of vertical thrust then not kill the glide ratio while still propulsion your horizontally (ie forward) as well. So some people simply have planes with vertical take off then the props rotate when you need to go faster/longer. Thats a lot of mechs thus less reliable tho - at least so far. Also the props are huge and thus cause a lot of drag still. See the v22 osprey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtGjzbVb76U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtGjzbVb76U for ex. Theres some experiments with covered props (but that lowers the efficiency at lower rotational speed) so that there is less friction when gliding forward.