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I am aware of the textbook definition of "democracy," "republic," etc, but it seems like those names are more of a flag for people to fight under than a definit

I am aware of the textbook definition of "democracy," "republic," etc, but it seems like those names are more of a flag for people to fight under than a definition for a state of being in the modern era You seem to be assigning moral equivalence to democracy and Chinese communism/totalitarianism. If you aren't just trolling, then differences include the right to travel, the right to free speech, the right to read the internet uncensored, and the right to vote.

Naritai 12y ago
I'm referring to the US government's 'us vs. them' attitude towards the countries that it defines as democracies (the 'free world'), and the countries it defines as dictatorships (including China). I am aware the truth is significantly more nuanced than that, but in my post I'm interpreting the motives of the US government, not my personal take on the matter. update: pdx's comment does a great job of providing a deeper explanation.
sillysaurus3 12y ago
More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. I'm here to understand the issues and make my own decision. Haven't you ever wondered about something that you knew nothing about? How would you learn about it other than reading and asking questions? I have no idea how you concluded that I might be trolling, especially after I both admitted ignorance and asked to be cut a break for it. Regarding your list: - Right to travel: There are many people from China living in the US. Do you have more info about this point? I don't understand how their right to travel is restricted. - Right to free speech: If you were to try to start a new news organization to compete with CBS/Fox/etc, the organization wouldn't get very far unless it had a clear political agenda and was funded by supporters of that agenda. I'm interested to hear about what it's like in China in comparison to the US. - Right to read the internet uncensored: There's no debate on this point. - Right to vote: Candidates seem to be elected based on how well-funded they are. Or rather, no one votes for an underfunded candidate, so these are equivalent. Again, I am interested to hear about China's system, and why it's morally inferior in comparison to this. Thanks for your time. I realize I probably sound pretty dumb here, but I'm here to learn, not to defend my position. In fact, I have no position. Only questions.
- refurb 12y ago
  I get the sense that you're approaching this as "neither system is perfect, so they are equivalent"? In other words, since you could get shot by a cop in the US even though you did nothing wrong, that means American is no better than ISIS who massacres thousands of innocent civilians? I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent).
  - sillysaurus3 12y ago
    It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Apologies. I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent). Which points did I say were equivalent? I said no such thing. I was saying, "I have no clue what I'm talking about, and I have no clue what life in China is like, so please correct me." But since I've said that multiple times and it's still not getting across, I think it's better for HN if everyone would just ignore my chain of comments.
    - randallsquared 12y ago
      > It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Well, that's probably true, since politics is a mindkiller. :) If you want to understand current foreign policy of the US, I recommend reading history, rather than politically aimed books or essays. History books and essays will often have political aims as well, but the slight remove from the present day introduces somewhat more consensus, and understanding how the world got to the current situation will inform your political understanding more evenly than reading a lot of posturing for one political position or another, in my opinion.
      - sillysaurus3 12y ago
        Thanks! Do you have any recommendations about which books to read? Which ones were most helpful to you?

Naritai 12y ago

I'm referring to the US government's 'us vs. them' attitude towards the countries that it defines as democracies (the 'free world'), and the countries it defines as dictatorships (including China). I am aware the truth is significantly more nuanced than that, but in my post I'm interpreting the motives of the US government, not my personal take on the matter. update: pdx's comment does a great job of providing a deeper explanation.

sillysaurus3 12y ago

More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. I'm here to understand the issues and make my own decision. Haven't you ever wondered about something that you knew nothing about? How would you learn about it other than reading and asking questions? I have no idea how you concluded that I might be trolling, especially after I both admitted ignorance and asked to be cut a break for it. Regarding your list: - Right to travel: There are many people from China living in the US. Do you have more info about this point? I don't understand how their right to travel is restricted. - Right to free speech: If you were to try to start a new news organization to compete with CBS/Fox/etc, the organization wouldn't get very far unless it had a clear political agenda and was funded by supporters of that agenda. I'm interested to hear about what it's like in China in comparison to the US. - Right to read the internet uncensored: There's no debate on this point. - Right to vote: Candidates seem to be elected based on how well-funded they are. Or rather, no one votes for an underfunded candidate, so these are equivalent. Again, I am interested to hear about China's system, and why it's morally inferior in comparison to this. Thanks for your time. I realize I probably sound pretty dumb here, but I'm here to learn, not to defend my position. In fact, I have no position. Only questions.

refurb 12y ago
I get the sense that you're approaching this as "neither system is perfect, so they are equivalent"? In other words, since you could get shot by a cop in the US even though you did nothing wrong, that means American is no better than ISIS who massacres thousands of innocent civilians? I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent).
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Apologies. I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent). Which points did I say were equivalent? I said no such thing. I was saying, "I have no clue what I'm talking about, and I have no clue what life in China is like, so please correct me." But since I've said that multiple times and it's still not getting across, I think it's better for HN if everyone would just ignore my chain of comments.
  - randallsquared 12y ago
    > It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Well, that's probably true, since politics is a mindkiller. :) If you want to understand current foreign policy of the US, I recommend reading history, rather than politically aimed books or essays. History books and essays will often have political aims as well, but the slight remove from the present day introduces somewhat more consensus, and understanding how the world got to the current situation will inform your political understanding more evenly than reading a lot of posturing for one political position or another, in my opinion.
    - sillysaurus3 12y ago
      Thanks! Do you have any recommendations about which books to read? Which ones were most helpful to you?