5 ms·

I have no family and no car, but I do live in Chicago alone in a big apartment (for about $1000/mo) and I have a sailboat which is cheap to own in Chicago becau

by jordanb 12y ago

I have no family and no car, but I do live in Chicago alone in a big apartment (for about $1000/mo) and I have a sailboat which is cheap to own in Chicago because the marinas are inexpensive. I also save a large part of my take home pay. Practically speaking even for me, to really cover a cost of living, giving like-for-like living situation, luxuries (like the boat) and maintaining my savings rate, double my current salary, or very close to that, would be the proper COL for moving to San Francisco. Ironically when most companies talk about COL it's usually on the order of 20%. I highly doubt reddit is really offering a COL that allows people to reproduce their lifestyle like-for-like in SF. For people like me who are single and have a few luxuries and live in not a particularly cheap city you're looking at double. For a family living in a cheap city you're looking at multiple times that. Really what Reddit is offering (assuming their COL is typical) is that the employee takes a pay cut, or they're fired. If that's not a shit sandwich I don't know what is.

x0x0 12y ago
The big apartment will be $3.5k. That's very workable -- the price is a $50k raise to get that $2.5k/mo post taxes. What isn't workable is the price of a home for kids. If you have two kids and want a three bedroom apartment or house, plus parking for a car, in most of sf you're starting at $5k/mo+. Plus probably needing private schools if you're not lucky enough to get into the handful of decent publics in sf. Or you can move to eg San Mateo or Belmont, which have good public schools. A nice 3-bed rental will be ~$4k/mo, but you're eating a 50 minute each-way commute up 101/280.
- negrit 12y ago
  But you pay more taxes in California, so saving less. And forget about the cheap marina. And you're leaving your friends and family behind. So clearly, it sucks.
- petercooper 12y ago
  Plus probably needing private schools if you're not lucky enough to get into the handful of decent publics in sf. As a mere visitor to SF, if SF has lots of poor quality public schools, who's going to them? I keep hearing on HN and Twitter about how ridiculously expensive it is to live anywhere in SF so why aren't the schools, funded by taxes like anywhere else, good too?
  - x0x0 12y ago
    peter -- this is a long involved answer, but basically, sf has fewer kids per capita than any city in america. This means several things: a lack of parents in the city means a lack of support for the schools. The schools have been bad for a while so there's an ugly cycle of the sort of parents that get involved in their kids' educations either leave for the peninsula, or put their kids into private schools. So the schools get worse. So more parents leave, or put their kids into private schools. Having kids are one of the major reasons people move to the peninsula: you trade a $800k apartment in sf for a $1.2mm house on the peninsula, but save $35-$45k/year in private school fees (assuming you have two kids). Spending the money on the house instead of school means you get your money back when you sell. Also, prop 13 destroyed local property taxes. This is another long involved story involving the wealthy getting californians to fuck newcomers, but it basically means very weird taxation. edit: oh, and who goes to public schools in sf? Predominantly poor minority kids. The fastest number I could find is that 62% of students in sf public schools qualify for free or reduced-price lunches [1], a common measure of poverty. In order to qualify your family must make less than 185% of the poverty line, or about $40k for a family with one kid. And that's in a city where 1-bedroom apartments now go for $3500/mo. The demographics of public school kids in sf [2] are 11% white. The city as a whole is 48.1% white [3]. [1] http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/02/06/calif-school-districts-found-using-lunch-money-for-other-purposes/ http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/02/06/calif-school-districts-f... [2] http://www.sfusd.edu/en/employment/certificated-careers/teaching-careers/why-teach-with-sfusd/our-district-snapshot.html http://www.sfusd.edu/en/employment/certificated-careers/teac... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Race_and_ethnicit...
bravura 12y ago
Slip fees in the Bay Area are about $350/mo if you want to live on the boat, and maybe $180/mo if you only want to sail the boat. Source: A friend who bought a boat and lives on it. What are the costs like in Chicago, out of curiousity?
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  I've never seen slip fees in the Bay under $500/month, more if you want to liveboard. Chicago marina fees are pretty steep as well, depending on the length of your boat: http://www.chicagoharbors.info/rates/ http://www.chicagoharbors.info/rates/
joelrunyon 12y ago
Where do you have a $1,000 big apartment in Chicago? You can get a nice place sure & it's not nearly as expensive, but I'd be surprised if you're finding anything that's not a studio in most of the desirable neighborhoods for under 1k.
- strict9 12y ago
  Maybe not near the lake, but easily possible in Logan Square/Avondale, Pilsen, Bridgeport. Currently paying $1,000 for a large 2BR in a Victorian 2 flat. It's not next door to a train station, but my commute to the Loop is less than 45 minutes.
  - joelrunyon 12y ago
    I lived in Bucktown area & got a steal. Logan square is still tough with the prices rising recently.
- mamoswined 12y ago
  I live in what I feel is a very desirable area (West Town) and have a 2 bedroom for $1100 (it was 1000 two years ago).
icelancer 12y ago
>Really what Reddit is offering (assuming their COL is typical) is that the employee takes a pay cut, or they're fired. If that's not a shit sandwich I don't know what is. Absolutely. If a mid-level engineer is making $85k living in Cleveland, OH and has a family of four owning 2,200 square foot house that he paid $125,000 for, I'd LOVE to see the COL adjustment reddit comes up with for a similar-sized house in SF that is commutable to the reddit HQ. If it's not six figures and starting with a 2, it's not even close.
christ0ph 12y ago
Make sure if you move to SF that parking comes with the apt, otherwise if you have a car you'll have to spend a minimum of $300 to park it off street.. SF is one of the best cities in the country (as good as NYC) for public transportation. Some neighborhoods, you absolutely do not want to have to park on the street. People lose their cars all the time that way.
- nemothekid 12y ago
  As good as NYC? Maybe from any point on Market street to any other point on Market. Going North/South is a huge pain. Getting from lower pac heights to SF Caltrain (3mi) takes 40 minutes and 2 buses. You can cover 3mi in NYC in half the time to almost anywhere on the subway system alone.

by jordanb 12y ago

x0x0 12y ago

The big apartment will be $3.5k. That's very workable -- the price is a $50k raise to get that $2.5k/mo post taxes. What isn't workable is the price of a home for kids. If you have two kids and want a three bedroom apartment or house, plus parking for a car, in most of sf you're starting at $5k/mo+. Plus probably needing private schools if you're not lucky enough to get into the handful of decent publics in sf. Or you can move to eg San Mateo or Belmont, which have good public schools. A nice 3-bed rental will be ~$4k/mo, but you're eating a 50 minute each-way commute up 101/280.

negrit 12y ago
But you pay more taxes in California, so saving less. And forget about the cheap marina. And you're leaving your friends and family behind. So clearly, it sucks.
petercooper 12y ago
Plus probably needing private schools if you're not lucky enough to get into the handful of decent publics in sf. As a mere visitor to SF, if SF has lots of poor quality public schools, who's going to them? I keep hearing on HN and Twitter about how ridiculously expensive it is to live anywhere in SF so why aren't the schools, funded by taxes like anywhere else, good too?
- x0x0 12y ago
  peter -- this is a long involved answer, but basically, sf has fewer kids per capita than any city in america. This means several things: a lack of parents in the city means a lack of support for the schools. The schools have been bad for a while so there's an ugly cycle of the sort of parents that get involved in their kids' educations either leave for the peninsula, or put their kids into private schools. So the schools get worse. So more parents leave, or put their kids into private schools. Having kids are one of the major reasons people move to the peninsula: you trade a $800k apartment in sf for a $1.2mm house on the peninsula, but save $35-$45k/year in private school fees (assuming you have two kids). Spending the money on the house instead of school means you get your money back when you sell. Also, prop 13 destroyed local property taxes. This is another long involved story involving the wealthy getting californians to fuck newcomers, but it basically means very weird taxation. edit: oh, and who goes to public schools in sf? Predominantly poor minority kids. The fastest number I could find is that 62% of students in sf public schools qualify for free or reduced-price lunches [1], a common measure of poverty. In order to qualify your family must make less than 185% of the poverty line, or about $40k for a family with one kid. And that's in a city where 1-bedroom apartments now go for $3500/mo. The demographics of public school kids in sf [2] are 11% white. The city as a whole is 48.1% white [3]. [1] http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/02/06/calif-school-districts-found-using-lunch-money-for-other-purposes/ http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/02/06/calif-school-districts-f... [2] http://www.sfusd.edu/en/employment/certificated-careers/teaching-careers/why-teach-with-sfusd/our-district-snapshot.html http://www.sfusd.edu/en/employment/certificated-careers/teac... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Race_and_ethnicit...

bravura 12y ago

Slip fees in the Bay Area are about $350/mo if you want to live on the boat, and maybe $180/mo if you only want to sail the boat. Source: A friend who bought a boat and lives on it. What are the costs like in Chicago, out of curiousity?

toomuchtodo 12y ago
I've never seen slip fees in the Bay under $500/month, more if you want to liveboard. Chicago marina fees are pretty steep as well, depending on the length of your boat: http://www.chicagoharbors.info/rates/ http://www.chicagoharbors.info/rates/

joelrunyon 12y ago

Where do you have a $1,000 big apartment in Chicago? You can get a nice place sure & it's not nearly as expensive, but I'd be surprised if you're finding anything that's not a studio in most of the desirable neighborhoods for under 1k.

strict9 12y ago
Maybe not near the lake, but easily possible in Logan Square/Avondale, Pilsen, Bridgeport. Currently paying $1,000 for a large 2BR in a Victorian 2 flat. It's not next door to a train station, but my commute to the Loop is less than 45 minutes.
- joelrunyon 12y ago
  I lived in Bucktown area & got a steal. Logan square is still tough with the prices rising recently.
mamoswined 12y ago
I live in what I feel is a very desirable area (West Town) and have a 2 bedroom for $1100 (it was 1000 two years ago).

icelancer 12y ago

>Really what Reddit is offering (assuming their COL is typical) is that the employee takes a pay cut, or they're fired. If that's not a shit sandwich I don't know what is. Absolutely. If a mid-level engineer is making $85k living in Cleveland, OH and has a family of four owning 2,200 square foot house that he paid $125,000 for, I'd LOVE to see the COL adjustment reddit comes up with for a similar-sized house in SF that is commutable to the reddit HQ. If it's not six figures and starting with a 2, it's not even close.

christ0ph 12y ago

Make sure if you move to SF that parking comes with the apt, otherwise if you have a car you'll have to spend a minimum of $300 to park it off street.. SF is one of the best cities in the country (as good as NYC) for public transportation. Some neighborhoods, you absolutely do not want to have to park on the street. People lose their cars all the time that way.

nemothekid 12y ago
As good as NYC? Maybe from any point on Market street to any other point on Market. Going North/South is a huge pain. Getting from lower pac heights to SF Caltrain (3mi) takes 40 minutes and 2 buses. You can cover 3mi in NYC in half the time to almost anywhere on the subway system alone.