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> [...] just for the sake of it, to become free men and free thinkers [...] You're assuming that one can only be a free thinker or a free man after 4 years of

> [...] just for the sake of it, to become free men and free thinkers [...] You're assuming that one can only be a free thinker or a free man after 4 years of university, as opposed to the ignorant slaves that are the rest. What makes you believe this?

iammyIP 12y ago
"people should be encouraged to pursue education just for the sake of it" - You´re assuming an assumption out of the blue.
- saool 12y ago
  I'm not assuming anything, I was just laying down my thesis, which is exactly that maybe we'd benefit more from education as a society if more people got some time to reflect on life as a whole before they get busy worrying about "real life". There are definitely arguments against this thesis, mostly economic, but I think the non-maximizing side of the problem is still worth entertaining.
andrewfong 12y ago
He didn't say that 4 years of university was a prerequisite to being a "free thinker", but I think it's probably useful. You get to live and work with fellow students who hail from sorts of backgrounds and have different goals and aspirations from you. Most universities offer classes in a wide range of subject areas, and many even require you to take classes outside of your specialization. There's a high concentration of intellectuals to interact with. And you get a lot of time to think about life, the universe, and everything. There are certainly substitutes for all of those things outside university (albeit scattered about), and it's questionable whether a full four years if needed. But, all else equal, I think the liberal arts education is conducive to "free thought", if not necessarily economic earning power.
- ahomescu1 12y ago
  > conducive to "free thought" "Conducive to" is the same as "required for". > He didn't say that 4 years of university was a prerequisite to being a "free thinker", but I think it's probably useful. You get to live and work with fellow students who hail from sorts of backgrounds and have different goals and aspirations from you. Most universities offer classes in a wide range of subject areas, and many even require you to take classes outside of your specialization. There's a high concentration of intellectuals to interact with. And you get a lot of time to think about life, the universe, and everything. My point is that none of those are required to be a "free thinker" or a "free man". To be a free thinker, one only needs a brain. To be a free man, one only needs to live in a free society.
  - rando289 12y ago
    > "Conducive to" is the same as "required for". No it's not.
    - ahomescu1 12y ago
      I agree, and that's a typo. It was supposed to be "is not the same", I forgot to put in the extra negation and now HN won't let me edit it.
saool 12y ago
You are assuming what I assume... I think it's much easier to be forced into being a subservient slave if you are not allowed some time to explore and learn, in a general sense. Granted college is far from a fireproof way–especially nowadays—of reaching any degree of "intelectual enlightenment", and of course you can get to "it" without stepping into a campus, but the time you spend not worrying about "real life" can definitely help.

iammyIP 12y ago

"people should be encouraged to pursue education just for the sake of it" - You´re assuming an assumption out of the blue.

saool 12y ago
I'm not assuming anything, I was just laying down my thesis, which is exactly that maybe we'd benefit more from education as a society if more people got some time to reflect on life as a whole before they get busy worrying about "real life". There are definitely arguments against this thesis, mostly economic, but I think the non-maximizing side of the problem is still worth entertaining.

andrewfong 12y ago

He didn't say that 4 years of university was a prerequisite to being a "free thinker", but I think it's probably useful. You get to live and work with fellow students who hail from sorts of backgrounds and have different goals and aspirations from you. Most universities offer classes in a wide range of subject areas, and many even require you to take classes outside of your specialization. There's a high concentration of intellectuals to interact with. And you get a lot of time to think about life, the universe, and everything. There are certainly substitutes for all of those things outside university (albeit scattered about), and it's questionable whether a full four years if needed. But, all else equal, I think the liberal arts education is conducive to "free thought", if not necessarily economic earning power.

ahomescu1 12y ago
> conducive to "free thought" "Conducive to" is the same as "required for". > He didn't say that 4 years of university was a prerequisite to being a "free thinker", but I think it's probably useful. You get to live and work with fellow students who hail from sorts of backgrounds and have different goals and aspirations from you. Most universities offer classes in a wide range of subject areas, and many even require you to take classes outside of your specialization. There's a high concentration of intellectuals to interact with. And you get a lot of time to think about life, the universe, and everything. My point is that none of those are required to be a "free thinker" or a "free man". To be a free thinker, one only needs a brain. To be a free man, one only needs to live in a free society.
- rando289 12y ago
  > "Conducive to" is the same as "required for". No it's not.
  - ahomescu1 12y ago
    I agree, and that's a typo. It was supposed to be "is not the same", I forgot to put in the extra negation and now HN won't let me edit it.

saool 12y ago

You are assuming what I assume... I think it's much easier to be forced into being a subservient slave if you are not allowed some time to explore and learn, in a general sense. Granted college is far from a fireproof way–especially nowadays—of reaching any degree of "intelectual enlightenment", and of course you can get to "it" without stepping into a campus, but the time you spend not worrying about "real life" can definitely help.