4 ms·

I am more concerned with good seats going to students who will never complete their degree, or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby

I am more concerned with good seats going to students who will never complete their degree, or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby and not a job. While the idea of removing costs sounds good there are just so many negatives. Means testing should still be done, raise the bar so that the truly well off are the only ones paying and not the lower income levels. The second "means" testing would be, is their object an effective degree. I see no reason to pay for someone's hobby, paying for a degree to benefit society is another. which redirects my thinking too, its free if your going to be a teacher, public defender, or similar, provided you complete the course and server for a set number of years, no less than ten.

VLM 12y ago
"or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby and not a job." There are more destructive forms of welfare than academic credentialism. Its an interesting idea to think about... if you can't get a job, go to school for free collecting degrees and certifications until you get a job. I've checked the numbers and in terms of accounting overhead and criminal justice system overhead it is somewhat cheaper, even with hyperinflated .edu costs, to send a kid to school than to jail. Even if only 1 in 3 kids gets caught and enters the criminal justice system (we do approach that ratio with some minorities) the numbers still work out that its cheaper to send all 3 of them to a community college than sending just 1 to prison.
- DasIch 12y ago
  Universities are not just factories that produce workers. Having a well educated society and people studying is desireable no matter how employable the people are afterwards. A well educated society is essential to an effective and efficient democracy and I would argue beneficial to culture and quality of life overall. The US is actually a very good example for what happens, if a significant part of your population is not well educated.
- smm2000 12y ago
  It's useless to send most criminals (especially minorities with 1/3 jail ratio) to community colleges. Majority of them could not even finish high school and still read at fifth grade level after graduation. It's a noble idea but unfortunately education is not for everyone. The only result of sending unprepared people college, will be making college less safe and destroying quality of education for kids who are prepared for college.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    This is the kind of attitude that makes it very difficult for someone who has made a mistake in life to recover from it. Nevermind the fact that the laws & bias application of them leading to many arrests are a mess. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...
    - danielweber 12y ago
      It's the perfect twofer: a credentialism race combined with discriminating against those with criminal backgrounds. And it looks so innocent from the outside, too.
  - djur 12y ago
    The point is to send them _before_ they become criminals.
    - smm2000 12y ago
      Before they become criminals, they fail (statistically) in high school which is already free.
  - DasIch 12y ago
    You do realize that the obvious logical conclusion of this line of thinking, is to put "most criminals" behind bars for the rest of their lives -- or to be more economical sentence them to death?
- Shivetya 12y ago
  it might be cheaper to send someone to school but it only is so provided they are able to use that education. there is also no need for a complete college level education for many careers. Instead they need to focus on provide the required education to get those who are economically disadvantaged into a higher and sustainable income level. Regardless, we should not be in the business of paying for people to be students, especially those who can easily pay for it and for those who have no real goal in mind other than to be a student. Society is not at the point where we can simply employ people to learn who put it to no use.
- danielweber 12y ago
  "go to school for free collecting degrees and certifications until you get a job." Even if it's "free," there are opportunity costs for spending years and years of your life in school. Rich families can afford these years with no problem. But the worst parts of a credentialism race fall on those at the bottom who can't spend a decade in school or can't hack the classroom material.

VLM 12y ago

"or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby and not a job." There are more destructive forms of welfare than academic credentialism. Its an interesting idea to think about... if you can't get a job, go to school for free collecting degrees and certifications until you get a job. I've checked the numbers and in terms of accounting overhead and criminal justice system overhead it is somewhat cheaper, even with hyperinflated .edu costs, to send a kid to school than to jail. Even if only 1 in 3 kids gets caught and enters the criminal justice system (we do approach that ratio with some minorities) the numbers still work out that its cheaper to send all 3 of them to a community college than sending just 1 to prison.

DasIch 12y ago
Universities are not just factories that produce workers. Having a well educated society and people studying is desireable no matter how employable the people are afterwards. A well educated society is essential to an effective and efficient democracy and I would argue beneficial to culture and quality of life overall. The US is actually a very good example for what happens, if a significant part of your population is not well educated.
smm2000 12y ago
It's useless to send most criminals (especially minorities with 1/3 jail ratio) to community colleges. Majority of them could not even finish high school and still read at fifth grade level after graduation. It's a noble idea but unfortunately education is not for everyone. The only result of sending unprepared people college, will be making college less safe and destroying quality of education for kids who are prepared for college.
- smtddr 12y ago
  This is the kind of attitude that makes it very difficult for someone who has made a mistake in life to recover from it. Nevermind the fact that the laws & bias application of them leading to many arrests are a mess. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...
  - danielweber 12y ago
    It's the perfect twofer: a credentialism race combined with discriminating against those with criminal backgrounds. And it looks so innocent from the outside, too.
- djur 12y ago
  The point is to send them _before_ they become criminals.
  - smm2000 12y ago
    Before they become criminals, they fail (statistically) in high school which is already free.
- DasIch 12y ago
  You do realize that the obvious logical conclusion of this line of thinking, is to put "most criminals" behind bars for the rest of their lives -- or to be more economical sentence them to death?
Shivetya 12y ago
it might be cheaper to send someone to school but it only is so provided they are able to use that education. there is also no need for a complete college level education for many careers. Instead they need to focus on provide the required education to get those who are economically disadvantaged into a higher and sustainable income level. Regardless, we should not be in the business of paying for people to be students, especially those who can easily pay for it and for those who have no real goal in mind other than to be a student. Society is not at the point where we can simply employ people to learn who put it to no use.
danielweber 12y ago
"go to school for free collecting degrees and certifications until you get a job." Even if it's "free," there are opportunity costs for spending years and years of your life in school. Rich families can afford these years with no problem. But the worst parts of a credentialism race fall on those at the bottom who can't spend a decade in school or can't hack the classroom material.