5 ms·

"[...] way past the point of marginal returns in terms of social or cultural advancement [...]" - how do you measure that? We have just started. More free educ

by iammyIP 12y ago

"[...] way past the point of marginal returns in terms of social or cultural advancement [...]" - how do you measure that? We have just started. More free education is always better, and as a bonus it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them. Imagine all People on Earth would have a university degree, good all-around education and culture would explode with the beauty of a supernova way beyond even our wildest imaginations. But no, some people need to be kept uneducated so they are willing to take shit jobs in the dust to serve the few chosen ones. All for the sake of "marginal returns"(?), which seems more important than humanity itself sometimes. This way of thinking must end. The sooner the better. Get educated.

cmdkeen 12y ago
Firstly the large number of graduates in non graduate job belies this. It's a massive con that there are anything close to the same benefits accruing to everyone who gets a university education. What should be happening more is people learning a trade. Germany's economic powerhouse status is not due to graduates nearly as much as skilled technical workers.
- iammyIP 12y ago
  yes, it seems there are not enough paid places in society especially for cultural / liberal arts educated people and they end up as baristas or similar, but i dont see this as a bad thing. It puts pressure on automation, on re-thinking how a barista gets paid, it fuels anger and frustration of those affected and helps eventually changing thesed things to acommodate better to the current and future situation. The worst solution is to get less people educated, so we can sustain some after-ww2-status-quo.
  - zanny 12y ago
    > The worst solution is to get less people educated I agree with the sentiment that since the pointless massive debt of a university education makes the graduate baristas life more miserable and thus can become more frustrated and prone to demand change in the system, but you could have the same outcome by skipping the wasted years and just getting frustrated mixing drinks straight out of your compulsory state regimen.
VLM 12y ago
I don't live on the coasts and all the waitresses and bartenders and coffee baristas here have some kind of liberal arts degrees. My wife's hairdresser has a degree in English Lit IIRC. All that's exploding with the beauty of a supernova is their debts and higher ed administrator salaries. One of the waitresses at the local restaurant student taught at my son's school, and it doesn't make the service any better. Intentionally vocational training and education are confused. "I'll take out $50K of loans to get vocational training at uni to get a credential so I can get a great job" then get stuck waitressing because 40 were graduated for 10 job openings is a net loss. "I'll get an education so I have interesting things to think about for the rest of my life" is a net win, although probably not worth $50K when you can get it just as good or better for free elsewhere, just without the credential.
- iammyIP 12y ago
  and the solution to that would have been to travel to the past and tell them: "don´t get a liberal arts degree! don´t study english literature! go apply to that hairdresser offering now!"?. A society puts people into incredible debt for an education with not much direct market value because it values that market more than itself?
danielweber 12y ago
it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them I missed the headline that the biggest problem with the economy right now is "too many jobs that are too boring to do."
- iammyIP 12y ago
  I thought these headlines were about ongoing automation, a still huge uneducated workforce that becomes more obsolete over time, about how humanity is not only about economy but also about culture and arts, and what we can do so that everybody can freely contribute to humanity without acting as a braindead worker drone all life long.

by iammyIP 12y ago

cmdkeen 12y ago

Firstly the large number of graduates in non graduate job belies this. It's a massive con that there are anything close to the same benefits accruing to everyone who gets a university education. What should be happening more is people learning a trade. Germany's economic powerhouse status is not due to graduates nearly as much as skilled technical workers.

iammyIP 12y ago
yes, it seems there are not enough paid places in society especially for cultural / liberal arts educated people and they end up as baristas or similar, but i dont see this as a bad thing. It puts pressure on automation, on re-thinking how a barista gets paid, it fuels anger and frustration of those affected and helps eventually changing thesed things to acommodate better to the current and future situation. The worst solution is to get less people educated, so we can sustain some after-ww2-status-quo.
- zanny 12y ago
  > The worst solution is to get less people educated I agree with the sentiment that since the pointless massive debt of a university education makes the graduate baristas life more miserable and thus can become more frustrated and prone to demand change in the system, but you could have the same outcome by skipping the wasted years and just getting frustrated mixing drinks straight out of your compulsory state regimen.

VLM 12y ago

I don't live on the coasts and all the waitresses and bartenders and coffee baristas here have some kind of liberal arts degrees. My wife's hairdresser has a degree in English Lit IIRC. All that's exploding with the beauty of a supernova is their debts and higher ed administrator salaries. One of the waitresses at the local restaurant student taught at my son's school, and it doesn't make the service any better. Intentionally vocational training and education are confused. "I'll take out $50K of loans to get vocational training at uni to get a credential so I can get a great job" then get stuck waitressing because 40 were graduated for 10 job openings is a net loss. "I'll get an education so I have interesting things to think about for the rest of my life" is a net win, although probably not worth $50K when you can get it just as good or better for free elsewhere, just without the credential.

iammyIP 12y ago
and the solution to that would have been to travel to the past and tell them: "don´t get a liberal arts degree! don´t study english literature! go apply to that hairdresser offering now!"?. A society puts people into incredible debt for an education with not much direct market value because it values that market more than itself?

danielweber 12y ago

it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them I missed the headline that the biggest problem with the economy right now is "too many jobs that are too boring to do."

iammyIP 12y ago
I thought these headlines were about ongoing automation, a still huge uneducated workforce that becomes more obsolete over time, about how humanity is not only about economy but also about culture and arts, and what we can do so that everybody can freely contribute to humanity without acting as a braindead worker drone all life long.