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I'm surprised that the author could write such a cherry-picked article with a straight face. I clicked through to the six links in the twitter comments. Here's

I'm surprised that the author could write such a cherry-picked article with a straight face. I clicked through to the six links in the twitter comments. Here's a summary of who made them: 1. bobcostas55: member for 146 days, 42 karma 2. gph: member for 997 days, 634 karma 3. lulzwat1111: member for 32 days, -8 karma, comment downvoted into oblivion 4. aianus: member for 588 days, 369 karma 5. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8372411 I honestly don't see the problem here? 6. nickthemagicman: member for 690 days, 241 karma, comment downvoted into oblivion For context, I have over 4500 karma (I only comment a few times a month and don't submit much), and the HN user with the 100th highest karma has over 16,000. In other words, these comments are not representative of the entire community, or of even a single medium-profile user. The vast majority of the time, ignorant comments are met with multiple replies setting the person straight, or with downvotes (as I do, for anything that is insulting or offensive). Hacker News intends to attract a technical audience. The community includes a wide variety of people, some of which are 16-to-25-year-old men who have poor socialization skills. Some of them (and some others, certainly) have naive, twisted beliefs, or they are just unaware of their privileged position in society. Others are from different countries that have old-fashioned gender norms. I don't think this is a problem unique to HN or even to tech. I claim that you could just as easily write an article like this about fraternity or country club communities, if their communications were indexed for the entire world to see. At least in the case of HN, you have a large number of dissenting viewpoints. I actually think it's good that short-sighted individuals express their bigoted views. It gives others a chance to provide them with some perspective. Even more, though, prudent individuals who think the same thing have the opportunity to have their viewpoints changed as well. Also, seeing the extreme version of one of your views can cause you to pause and reconsider it. Personally, I was quite libertarian and lacking in perspective on several issues (e.g., end user empathy, social welfare, the importance of tact) when I joined Hacker News 7-1/2 years ago. Of course I can't give all the credit to HN, but it has definitely had some positive effect in improving my personality and broadening my perspective.

metavida 12y ago
Agreed that HN is not facing a unique problem of *ist comments/members. However, as the OP points out, given that the leadership of Y Combinator say that "Sexism in tech is real. ... We—the tech industry as a whole—need to fix this. ... And speaking for YC, it’s also in our best interest."[1] it makes sense that HN should be taking concrete steps to make the community a safe place for diversity. It doesn't really matter whether or not a representative portion of the community is behaving poorly. If a subset of the HN community is making HN inhospitable to the diverse members HN seeks to support, that is the problem that the leadership & the community should be trying to solve. [1] http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups
danilocampos 12y ago
You're acting like I only have six pieces to point to. I have dozens. And this is only the set after I started hash tagging. https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23hnwatch&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23hnwatch&src=typd > I actually think it's good that short-sighted individuals express their bigoted views. There's a word for this kind of viewpoint. > It gives others a chance to provide them with some perspective. While alienating entire groups of underrepresented backgrounds. Sam Altman says tech needs to fix its exclusionary nature. So he actually agrees with me on this. I say change begins at home.
- BrandonM 12y ago
  > There's a word for this kind of viewpoint. What would that be? For the record (and I hope this is clear in the context of the rest of that paragraph), I think getting bigoted views out in the open can be better than the alternative. Open views can be criticized and corrected. Subversive hate or discrimination is much harder to address. "I say change begins at home," is meaningless. If you want change, go downvote (and possibly reply to) *ist comments in order to set them straight. Form a group of others to help you. Don't get on a soapbox and demand for everyone else to make the world the way you want it without being part of the solution. Taking public figures to task for what you perceive to be their shortcomings (as opposed to their wrongdoing) is not a solution. Before that, though, try to give people the benefit of the doubt before you respond with venom to them. Mischaracterizing people's positions and attacking out-of-context quotes (as I feel you did with me) are not going to change minds or win over anyone.
  - danilocampos 12y ago
    Y Combinator is a 30 billion dollar business. Hacker News is a big part of their operation. It's not the job of seagulls to organize oil spill cleanup.
    - BrandonM 12y ago
      Let me know when you want to stop speaking in metaphors or empty platitudes or unrepresentative, cherry-picked snippets, and then we can have a discussion. So far, I see no actionable suggestions for how to solve the problem, or even a clear definition of the problem.
danilocampos 12y ago
Please enjoy this comment from a user 2k days old with 11k karma: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165385 > Rape has meanings other than non-consensual sex. GP: Please use the word rape to the full extent provided by the english language, and let those who don't like the word deal with it. Hat tip: https://twitter.com/AaronM/status/517372417233002496 https://twitter.com/AaronM/status/517372417233002496
- BrandonM 12y ago
  I personally avoid using "rape" in such contexts. I don't like it. I agree with the parent comment, who says that it "is so deeply emotive and meaningful, in such an inappropriate context." So I agree that the comment you linked to is insensitive. Does that justify attacking me (https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/517371895747194880 https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/517371895747194880)? Can you tell me where you feel that I was defending bad behavior, or bad culture? My claim was that you misrepresented it. You turned that into a very personal attack. Is that OK?
  - danilocampos 12y ago
    Working for someone who thinks this exercise has been "cherry picking," who thinks it's the job of marginalized people to educate bigots, would be a horror show. Especially given the lack of self-awareness you've displayed here. Saying so is not only okay—it's necessary. https://twitter.com/kelseyinnis/status/516986016356261888 https://twitter.com/kelseyinnis/status/516986016356261888
    - BrandonM 12y ago
      "Working for someone..."? Who are you referring to? The startup I work for is not a YC company. Our founder/CEO is not active on HN. One of his main hobbies is participating on an international coed Ultimate Frisbee team. I don't think it's the part of marginalized people to educate bigots. Sorry if I wrongly assumed that you aren't marginalized. My view is that the moral non-marginalized should speak out loudly against bigots. I was trying to encourage you to attack the bigots instead of attacking everyone else. Edit: BTW, Everlaw has a blog. Anyone is welcome to read it and form their own opinions about our culture.
anthonyb 12y ago
> these comments are not representative of the entire community, or of even a single medium-profile user. The community doesn't have to be 100% racist or sexist for there to be a problem. These are all from the same threads as the original article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342366 [7227 karma, 1269 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342896 [7401 karma, 2780 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8338055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8338055 [32302 karma, 2432 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8392928 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8392928 [5003 karma, 1249 days old]
- BrandonM 12y ago
  That's definitely a good point. My comment was a kneejerk reaction to assertions like "Hacker News is a cesspool." I agree that we should address anything that makes people feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because of who they are.
  - bonaldi 12y ago
    And yet your original comment didn't say that, it just immediately went #notallmen. If you admit there's a problem, start with that. If you must start a tone fight, do it as an aside.
    - BrandonM 12y ago
      You're totally right (that's why I said "kneejerk"). Thanks for the advice.

metavida 12y ago

Agreed that HN is not facing a unique problem of *ist comments/members. However, as the OP points out, given that the leadership of Y Combinator say that "Sexism in tech is real. ... We—the tech industry as a whole—need to fix this. ... And speaking for YC, it’s also in our best interest."[1] it makes sense that HN should be taking concrete steps to make the community a safe place for diversity. It doesn't really matter whether or not a representative portion of the community is behaving poorly. If a subset of the HN community is making HN inhospitable to the diverse members HN seeks to support, that is the problem that the leadership & the community should be trying to solve. [1] http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups

danilocampos 12y ago

You're acting like I only have six pieces to point to. I have dozens. And this is only the set after I started hash tagging. https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23hnwatch&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23hnwatch&src=typd > I actually think it's good that short-sighted individuals express their bigoted views. There's a word for this kind of viewpoint. > It gives others a chance to provide them with some perspective. While alienating entire groups of underrepresented backgrounds. Sam Altman says tech needs to fix its exclusionary nature. So he actually agrees with me on this. I say change begins at home.

BrandonM 12y ago
> There's a word for this kind of viewpoint. What would that be? For the record (and I hope this is clear in the context of the rest of that paragraph), I think getting bigoted views out in the open can be better than the alternative. Open views can be criticized and corrected. Subversive hate or discrimination is much harder to address. "I say change begins at home," is meaningless. If you want change, go downvote (and possibly reply to) *ist comments in order to set them straight. Form a group of others to help you. Don't get on a soapbox and demand for everyone else to make the world the way you want it without being part of the solution. Taking public figures to task for what you perceive to be their shortcomings (as opposed to their wrongdoing) is not a solution. Before that, though, try to give people the benefit of the doubt before you respond with venom to them. Mischaracterizing people's positions and attacking out-of-context quotes (as I feel you did with me) are not going to change minds or win over anyone.
- danilocampos 12y ago
  Y Combinator is a 30 billion dollar business. Hacker News is a big part of their operation. It's not the job of seagulls to organize oil spill cleanup.
  - BrandonM 12y ago
    Let me know when you want to stop speaking in metaphors or empty platitudes or unrepresentative, cherry-picked snippets, and then we can have a discussion. So far, I see no actionable suggestions for how to solve the problem, or even a clear definition of the problem.

danilocampos 12y ago

Please enjoy this comment from a user 2k days old with 11k karma: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165385 > Rape has meanings other than non-consensual sex. GP: Please use the word rape to the full extent provided by the english language, and let those who don't like the word deal with it. Hat tip: https://twitter.com/AaronM/status/517372417233002496 https://twitter.com/AaronM/status/517372417233002496

BrandonM 12y ago
I personally avoid using "rape" in such contexts. I don't like it. I agree with the parent comment, who says that it "is so deeply emotive and meaningful, in such an inappropriate context." So I agree that the comment you linked to is insensitive. Does that justify attacking me (https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/517371895747194880 https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/517371895747194880)? Can you tell me where you feel that I was defending bad behavior, or bad culture? My claim was that you misrepresented it. You turned that into a very personal attack. Is that OK?
- danilocampos 12y ago
  Working for someone who thinks this exercise has been "cherry picking," who thinks it's the job of marginalized people to educate bigots, would be a horror show. Especially given the lack of self-awareness you've displayed here. Saying so is not only okay—it's necessary. https://twitter.com/kelseyinnis/status/516986016356261888 https://twitter.com/kelseyinnis/status/516986016356261888
  - BrandonM 12y ago
    "Working for someone..."? Who are you referring to? The startup I work for is not a YC company. Our founder/CEO is not active on HN. One of his main hobbies is participating on an international coed Ultimate Frisbee team. I don't think it's the part of marginalized people to educate bigots. Sorry if I wrongly assumed that you aren't marginalized. My view is that the moral non-marginalized should speak out loudly against bigots. I was trying to encourage you to attack the bigots instead of attacking everyone else. Edit: BTW, Everlaw has a blog. Anyone is welcome to read it and form their own opinions about our culture.

anthonyb 12y ago

> these comments are not representative of the entire community, or of even a single medium-profile user. The community doesn't have to be 100% racist or sexist for there to be a problem. These are all from the same threads as the original article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342366 [7227 karma, 1269 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342896 [7401 karma, 2780 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8338055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8338055 [32302 karma, 2432 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8392928 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8392928 [5003 karma, 1249 days old]

BrandonM 12y ago
That's definitely a good point. My comment was a kneejerk reaction to assertions like "Hacker News is a cesspool." I agree that we should address anything that makes people feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because of who they are.
- bonaldi 12y ago
  And yet your original comment didn't say that, it just immediately went #notallmen. If you admit there's a problem, start with that. If you must start a tone fight, do it as an aside.
  - BrandonM 12y ago
    You're totally right (that's why I said "kneejerk"). Thanks for the advice.