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If you ever lose both your login & access to the email address from which you signed up, you will lose everything you host with nearlyfreespeech. I was trying

by mattbee 12y ago

If you ever lose both your login & access to the email address from which you signed up, you will lose everything you host with nearlyfreespeech. I was trying to help a friend recover his own site after the pre-paid credit expired. A mutual journo friend had set it up years earlier but lost access to an old email address. It was down because the pre-paid credit had expired, but wouldn't even take payment from someone they didn't know to get it back up. Support wouldn't empathise or even help "in principle", i.e. "Given that we've lost access to the original email address that our friend signed up with, how can we go about recovering this account, give you some money saving the domain"? The answer was essentially: we don't care, you're dead to us. I run an ISP in the UK that takes backup contact options, so I was trying to go through what options they _might_ have to help, but they weren't interested. Cheap is good, especially when you're setting up sites for friends, but always think twice about the support you might need years down the line.

pilif 12y ago
Personally, I think this is a feature. It's nice to know that a third party cannot socially engineer them into access to my site. Of course now it all hinges on the social engineerability of my email provider, but they're getting better and better at this too.
- derefr 12y ago
  There's a difference between "asking to recover an account of that's in active use" and "asking to recover an account which is in arrears and unreachable for the last two months", though. I don't think I'd mind if people were able to socially engineer the latter; they'd have to pay my account off to use it!
soult 12y ago
Actually they have improved on this a lot. If you lose access to your account and your configured mail address, there are various actions (like sending bank statements, government ID, secret question/answer pair, ...) you can take to get it back. But instead of relying on a single verification method, you are required to submit at least X different proofs of identification, where X can be set by yourself (before you lose access, of course). This is a lot better than blindly trusting that every "lost password" request is legitimate. For more information you can check out their FAQ entry on the issue: https://members.nearlyfreespeech.net/faq?q=LostEverything#LostEverything https://members.nearlyfreespeech.net/faq?q=LostEverything#Lo...
awakened 12y ago
This is not true. There are several recovery options offered by NearlyFreeSpeech. They are defined in great detail on their website. They offer two factor (TOTP) as well: "Our membership recovery procedure comes into play when you lose your password and access to your email at the same time, or if you have 2-factor authentication configured and lose the second factor. To regain access, you will need to contact us and perform a certain number of verification actions." Possible verification actions: * You provide a scanned copy of a government-issued photo ID. * You provide a scanned copy of a statement showing both the most recent deposit and a name and address matching one of your accounts. * You complete SMS verification. (SMS must be previously configured.) * You complete 2-factor verification. (2-factor auth must be previously configured.) * You correctly answer your security question. (Security question and answer must be previously configured, below.) * You use an ssh key to create a file with a specific name on one of your sites hosted here. (Must be previously configured, won’t work if account is empty.) * We try and fail to contact you via your currently configured email address. (This one may take a long time.) Recovery Thresholds: * Scorched Earth. If you lose access to your membership, you won’t be able to recover it. But neither will anyone else. (This is not a joke. If you set this option and lose access to your membership, it and everything on it will be inaccessible until it expires.) * All possible actions. Excessive security. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you. * Five actions. Very high security. Regaining access will be a huge pain for you, and rounds-to-impossible for anyone else. * Four actions. High security. Provides enhanced protection but if you need to recover access to your membership, it’s probably going to be pretty inconvenient. * Three actions. Default security. Provides good protection without making membership recovery too miserable. * Two actions. Reduced security. We really don’t recommend this, but if you’re really forgetful and really sure nobody would ever target your membership, this option exists. * One action. No security. All it takes is an email bounce and your membership goes to the first person to ask for it. (This is a joke. Don’t pick this.) Confirmation: * I understand the recovery setting I'm picking, and I am solely responsible for the consequences.
- teraflop 12y ago
  To be fair, that level of customizability is fairly new; It was only announced about 8 months ago[1]. I don't know how strict the previous recovery procedure was, since I never had to make use of it. [1]: https://blog.nearlyfreespeech.net/2014/02/28/price-cuts-more-security-and-recovery-options/ https://blog.nearlyfreespeech.net/2014/02/28/price-cuts-more...
sogen 12y ago
They also have an adjunct member feature: "Any members added will be able to use FTP and ssh to access the site just as you can." That feature has been there for as long as I remember. (over 8 years)

by mattbee 12y ago

pilif 12y ago

Personally, I think this is a feature. It's nice to know that a third party cannot socially engineer them into access to my site. Of course now it all hinges on the social engineerability of my email provider, but they're getting better and better at this too.

derefr 12y ago
There's a difference between "asking to recover an account of that's in active use" and "asking to recover an account which is in arrears and unreachable for the last two months", though. I don't think I'd mind if people were able to socially engineer the latter; they'd have to pay my account off to use it!

soult 12y ago

Actually they have improved on this a lot. If you lose access to your account and your configured mail address, there are various actions (like sending bank statements, government ID, secret question/answer pair, ...) you can take to get it back. But instead of relying on a single verification method, you are required to submit at least X different proofs of identification, where X can be set by yourself (before you lose access, of course). This is a lot better than blindly trusting that every "lost password" request is legitimate. For more information you can check out their FAQ entry on the issue: https://members.nearlyfreespeech.net/faq?q=LostEverything#LostEverything https://members.nearlyfreespeech.net/faq?q=LostEverything#Lo...

awakened 12y ago

This is not true. There are several recovery options offered by NearlyFreeSpeech. They are defined in great detail on their website. They offer two factor (TOTP) as well: "Our membership recovery procedure comes into play when you lose your password and access to your email at the same time, or if you have 2-factor authentication configured and lose the second factor. To regain access, you will need to contact us and perform a certain number of verification actions." Possible verification actions: * You provide a scanned copy of a government-issued photo ID. * You provide a scanned copy of a statement showing both the most recent deposit and a name and address matching one of your accounts. * You complete SMS verification. (SMS must be previously configured.) * You complete 2-factor verification. (2-factor auth must be previously configured.) * You correctly answer your security question. (Security question and answer must be previously configured, below.) * You use an ssh key to create a file with a specific name on one of your sites hosted here. (Must be previously configured, won’t work if account is empty.) * We try and fail to contact you via your currently configured email address. (This one may take a long time.) Recovery Thresholds: * Scorched Earth. If you lose access to your membership, you won’t be able to recover it. But neither will anyone else. (This is not a joke. If you set this option and lose access to your membership, it and everything on it will be inaccessible until it expires.) * All possible actions. Excessive security. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you. * Five actions. Very high security. Regaining access will be a huge pain for you, and rounds-to-impossible for anyone else. * Four actions. High security. Provides enhanced protection but if you need to recover access to your membership, it’s probably going to be pretty inconvenient. * Three actions. Default security. Provides good protection without making membership recovery too miserable. * Two actions. Reduced security. We really don’t recommend this, but if you’re really forgetful and really sure nobody would ever target your membership, this option exists. * One action. No security. All it takes is an email bounce and your membership goes to the first person to ask for it. (This is a joke. Don’t pick this.) Confirmation: * I understand the recovery setting I'm picking, and I am solely responsible for the consequences.

teraflop 12y ago
To be fair, that level of customizability is fairly new; It was only announced about 8 months ago[1]. I don't know how strict the previous recovery procedure was, since I never had to make use of it. [1]: https://blog.nearlyfreespeech.net/2014/02/28/price-cuts-more-security-and-recovery-options/ https://blog.nearlyfreespeech.net/2014/02/28/price-cuts-more...

sogen 12y ago

They also have an adjunct member feature: "Any members added will be able to use FTP and ssh to access the site just as you can." That feature has been there for as long as I remember. (over 8 years)