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> Maybe the ultimate lesson we learned then and now is how little people care. People are woefully uninformed on the NSA and surveillance. If you ask a random

> Maybe the ultimate lesson we learned then and now is how little people care. People are woefully uninformed on the NSA and surveillance. If you ask a random layperson what Snowden disclosed nine times out of ten you'll get "that phone program thing, right?" The major media outlets made the issue about PRISM and The Congress ran with that free lunch to pass ineffective measures on part of one program while ignoring the bulk of the revelations. The Snowden documents passed through America without being digested at all. The media made the story about the Snowden character and political bickering. The Merkle episode was covered like it was a report on bickering children (German chancellor upset at US, Obama to meet with her) rather than piecing together how having that data during the Eurozone crisis likely affected policy decisions. I'd call this trick a feat if it weren't such a repeat act. I honestly do believe people care. I just don't think people understand what was disclosed. Even tech-savvy and otherwise well informed friends are surprised when I send or summarize the lesser covered material.

logn 12y ago
I don't think the public will get it until a major Hollywood movie presents a compelling narrative. People understand Minority Report. People don't understand Powerpoints released sporadically over multiple years. Also part of the problem is that the Snowden leaks, while full of technical detail, are devoid of almost all human elements. The other concerning element of all this is that even people who understand all of this fully, they still support it. So in some respects, the public is fully complicit. Maybe a similar dynamic to how whites accepted slavery.
- xnull2guest 12y ago
  I would be partial to this thesis, but I find it to be more a failing of the media. From Wikipedia: "In a democratic society, however, access to free information plays a central role in creating a system of checks and balance, and in distributing power equally amongst governments, businesses, individuals, and other social entities. Access to verifiable information gathered by independent media sources, which adhere to journalistic standards, can also be of service to ordinary citizens, by empowering them with the tools they need in order to participate in the political process." People payed attention to the news during the Snowden disclosures. But it wasn't news worth paying attention to. There's a good history of media partnerships with TLA agencies - I'm just going to leave some links. I'm willing to write about it but this time of night I'm not prepared to spend the time curating something comprehensive. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html [3] http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223?print=true http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-ge... [4] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/04/former-l-times... [5] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The... [6] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/14/manipulating-online-polls-ways-british-spies-seek-control-internet/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/14/manipulating-o... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing#Business_and_adoption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing#Business_and_adop... [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary#Astroturfing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary#Astroturfing [9] http://www.globalissues.org/article/461/media-reporting-journalism-and-propaganda http://www.globalissues.org/article/461/media-reporting-jour... [10] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04... [11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi [12] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/03/heroes-error?page=1 http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/03/heroes-error?pag...
- treerock 12y ago
  They probably need to present how the data can and is actually being used in a way that hits people personally. The UK phone hacking 'scandal'[1] showed that the public doesn't really care that much about phones being hacked if it ends up revealing corruption or crime or celebrity gossip. The real big deal was when it came out that they were accessing the voicemail of a missing 13 year old girl, who was later found dead. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacki...

logn 12y ago

I don't think the public will get it until a major Hollywood movie presents a compelling narrative. People understand Minority Report. People don't understand Powerpoints released sporadically over multiple years. Also part of the problem is that the Snowden leaks, while full of technical detail, are devoid of almost all human elements. The other concerning element of all this is that even people who understand all of this fully, they still support it. So in some respects, the public is fully complicit. Maybe a similar dynamic to how whites accepted slavery.

xnull2guest 12y ago
I would be partial to this thesis, but I find it to be more a failing of the media. From Wikipedia: "In a democratic society, however, access to free information plays a central role in creating a system of checks and balance, and in distributing power equally amongst governments, businesses, individuals, and other social entities. Access to verifiable information gathered by independent media sources, which adhere to journalistic standards, can also be of service to ordinary citizens, by empowering them with the tools they need in order to participate in the political process." People payed attention to the news during the Snowden disclosures. But it wasn't news worth paying attention to. There's a good history of media partnerships with TLA agencies - I'm just going to leave some links. I'm willing to write about it but this time of night I'm not prepared to spend the time curating something comprehensive. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html [3] http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223?print=true http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-ge... [4] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/04/former-l-times... [5] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The... [6] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/14/manipulating-online-polls-ways-british-spies-seek-control-internet/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/14/manipulating-o... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing#Business_and_adoption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing#Business_and_adop... [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary#Astroturfing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary#Astroturfing [9] http://www.globalissues.org/article/461/media-reporting-journalism-and-propaganda http://www.globalissues.org/article/461/media-reporting-jour... [10] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04... [11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi [12] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/03/heroes-error?page=1 http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/03/heroes-error?pag...
treerock 12y ago
They probably need to present how the data can and is actually being used in a way that hits people personally. The UK phone hacking 'scandal'[1] showed that the public doesn't really care that much about phones being hacked if it ends up revealing corruption or crime or celebrity gossip. The real big deal was when it came out that they were accessing the voicemail of a missing 13 year old girl, who was later found dead. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacki...