3 ms·

> The difference now is that we have free access via archive.org to much of the offensive and defensive literature prior to 1920s, mostly categorized under "occ

> The difference now is that we have free access via archive.org to much of the offensive and defensive literature prior to 1920s, mostly categorized under "occult" and "religion". Could you expand on this a little bit?

walterbell 12y ago
> Could you expand on this a little bit? This may be more confusing than helpful, but here goes. As a tech person, my comments may offend professional historians :) Recorded history includes many transitions/translations of media, including: Oral stories within a culture Oral stories about distant cultures, by travelers Written records of oral stories (e.g. "Aesop's" Fables) Language translations (Egyptian, Greek, Latin, European, English) Hand-written manuscripts Printed books Reprinted books For a work to be migrated forward in history required: (a) access to the original (b) literacy in old & new formats (c) financial resources & motivation (d) political balancing acts with the rulers/censors of the period. In the 17th century, Roger L'Estrange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_L%27Estrange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_L%27Estrange) was a publisher of propaganda in favor of Charles II, gained the authority to suppress (up to execution of the writer) seditious books (i.e. competing propaganda), and had licensing/publication veto over all books. Later in life, he would compile Aesop's fables and was allowed to print "problematic" fables by annotating them with apologetic commentary, http://bestlatin.blogspot.com/2011/09/sir-roger-lestrange-aesop-and-public.html http://bestlatin.blogspot.com/2011/09/sir-roger-lestrange-ae... 1913 biography of Estrange, https://archive.org/details/sirrogerlestrang00kitcuoft https://archive.org/details/sirrogerlestrang00kitcuoft Some examples of his writing, 1681-1687, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40339/40339-h/40339-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40339/40339-h/40339-h.htm Fast-forwarding four centuries, R.A. Lafferty (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/R._A._Lafferty http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/R._A._Lafferty), was an engineer and Catholic who took up scifi/fantasy writing in the 1960s at the age 45. He could read all languages of the Latin, German, and Slavic families, plus Gaelic and Greek. His personal library was about 8000 books, he wrote 29 novels and 225 short stories. His writing is a bit of an acquired taste, but often encapsulates multiple time periods of history. Don Webb, writing about Lafferty, http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=1110 http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=1110 --- "Lafferty makes use of dead language words to play upon our collective unconscious ... Lafferty's use of Greek, Latin, Irish, and Hebrew tags is not merely demonstration of his vast erudition. It is a technique used by magicians for centuries to give their spells potency. Whereas he directs most of his narrative at our conscious—using simple daytime language—he also directs the same tale at our unconscious achieving a form of meta-communication. ... Lafferty plays upon our subconscious in another way—the use of rhythm. Yevgeny Zamyatin developed the concept of a "prose foot" as a way of internal pacing of fiction. He saw it as a kind of rhythmic device that by causing the reader to remember an earlier part of the narrative became a force for a choral (as in pertaining to choruses) cohesion that bound the story together in a different way than plot mechanics." --- Because he could read so many languages, Lafferty was able to integrate primary source material, works which didn't migrate forward, today unavailable to readers who can't read Latin, Greek, etc. A recent article on Lafferty, http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-la... Old books about science, religion & magic need to be evaluated in the context of historical timelines, e.g. it would be interesting to see a histomap for schools of thought, http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_histomap_the_entire_history_of_the_world_distilled_into_a_single.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_his... . Here are some Archive.org books that are pro/con a particular school of thought: 4th-15th century writings of the Eastern Orthodox Church, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia & https://archive.org/details/Philokalia-TheCompleteText https://archive.org/details/Philokalia-TheCompleteText 1853, John Dowling, History of Romanism, arguing against the Roman Catholic Church, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dowling_(pastor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dowling_(pastor) 1890, James George Frazer, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion, anthropology of the human transition to science, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough 1896, Andrew Dickson White, founder of Cornell, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Warfare_of_Science_with_Theology_in_Christendom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Warfare_of_Sc... 1897, Charles William Heckethorn, The (160) Secret Societies of All Ages & Countries, https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso01heckuoft https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso01heckuoft & https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso02heckuoft https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso02heckuoft Basically, every group has published propaganda about every other group, none of which should be trusted :) Once you're aware of the basic concepts and storylines, it's more interesting to read Lafferty-esque scifi or historical fiction that time-travels ancient patterns onto modern objects. Just as Samsung & Microsoft retail stores took cues from first-mover Apple, modernity continues to use communication techniques that were pioneered by magi-cians & religion, centuries ago. The major difference now is the speed of feedback loops.

walterbell 12y ago

> Could you expand on this a little bit? This may be more confusing than helpful, but here goes. As a tech person, my comments may offend professional historians :) Recorded history includes many transitions/translations of media, including: Oral stories within a culture Oral stories about distant cultures, by travelers Written records of oral stories (e.g. "Aesop's" Fables) Language translations (Egyptian, Greek, Latin, European, English) Hand-written manuscripts Printed books Reprinted books For a work to be migrated forward in history required: (a) access to the original (b) literacy in old & new formats (c) financial resources & motivation (d) political balancing acts with the rulers/censors of the period. In the 17th century, Roger L'Estrange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_L%27Estrange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_L%27Estrange) was a publisher of propaganda in favor of Charles II, gained the authority to suppress (up to execution of the writer) seditious books (i.e. competing propaganda), and had licensing/publication veto over all books. Later in life, he would compile Aesop's fables and was allowed to print "problematic" fables by annotating them with apologetic commentary, http://bestlatin.blogspot.com/2011/09/sir-roger-lestrange-aesop-and-public.html http://bestlatin.blogspot.com/2011/09/sir-roger-lestrange-ae... 1913 biography of Estrange, https://archive.org/details/sirrogerlestrang00kitcuoft https://archive.org/details/sirrogerlestrang00kitcuoft Some examples of his writing, 1681-1687, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40339/40339-h/40339-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40339/40339-h/40339-h.htm Fast-forwarding four centuries, R.A. Lafferty (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/R._A._Lafferty http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/R._A._Lafferty), was an engineer and Catholic who took up scifi/fantasy writing in the 1960s at the age 45. He could read all languages of the Latin, German, and Slavic families, plus Gaelic and Greek. His personal library was about 8000 books, he wrote 29 novels and 225 short stories. His writing is a bit of an acquired taste, but often encapsulates multiple time periods of history. Don Webb, writing about Lafferty, http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=1110 http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=1110 --- "Lafferty makes use of dead language words to play upon our collective unconscious ... Lafferty's use of Greek, Latin, Irish, and Hebrew tags is not merely demonstration of his vast erudition. It is a technique used by magicians for centuries to give their spells potency. Whereas he directs most of his narrative at our conscious—using simple daytime language—he also directs the same tale at our unconscious achieving a form of meta-communication. ... Lafferty plays upon our subconscious in another way—the use of rhythm. Yevgeny Zamyatin developed the concept of a "prose foot" as a way of internal pacing of fiction. He saw it as a kind of rhythmic device that by causing the reader to remember an earlier part of the narrative became a force for a choral (as in pertaining to choruses) cohesion that bound the story together in a different way than plot mechanics." --- Because he could read so many languages, Lafferty was able to integrate primary source material, works which didn't migrate forward, today unavailable to readers who can't read Latin, Greek, etc. A recent article on Lafferty, http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-la... Old books about science, religion & magic need to be evaluated in the context of historical timelines, e.g. it would be interesting to see a histomap for schools of thought, http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_histomap_the_entire_history_of_the_world_distilled_into_a_single.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_his... . Here are some Archive.org books that are pro/con a particular school of thought: 4th-15th century writings of the Eastern Orthodox Church, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia & https://archive.org/details/Philokalia-TheCompleteText https://archive.org/details/Philokalia-TheCompleteText 1853, John Dowling, History of Romanism, arguing against the Roman Catholic Church, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dowling_(pastor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dowling_(pastor) 1890, James George Frazer, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion, anthropology of the human transition to science, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough 1896, Andrew Dickson White, founder of Cornell, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Warfare_of_Science_with_Theology_in_Christendom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Warfare_of_Sc... 1897, Charles William Heckethorn, The (160) Secret Societies of All Ages & Countries, https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso01heckuoft https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso01heckuoft & https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso02heckuoft https://archive.org/details/secretsocietieso02heckuoft Basically, every group has published propaganda about every other group, none of which should be trusted :) Once you're aware of the basic concepts and storylines, it's more interesting to read Lafferty-esque scifi or historical fiction that time-travels ancient patterns onto modern objects. Just as Samsung & Microsoft retail stores took cues from first-mover Apple, modernity continues to use communication techniques that were pioneered by magi-cians & religion, centuries ago. The major difference now is the speed of feedback loops.