8 ms·

The only question that rings to me anymore about these stories: What can I do? What code can I write? What broker can I call? What form can I sign? How can

by jMyles 12y ago

The only question that rings to me anymore about these stories: What can I do? What code can I write? What broker can I call? What form can I sign? How can I register my civic will so as to undo this blight? For me, this is the most embarrassing thing about being a United States citizen.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
deadfall 12y ago
I am a victim of these ridiculous fees. I thought about how someone was getting rich and I justified the fees because of the convenience. It most certainly cut back how much I sent and how frequently I used it. This directly affects the incarcerated person. Side note: PayPal allows you to send money to friends and family for free.
- egwor 12y ago
  Question: why can't paypal be used here as a viable competing solution?
  - Swannie 12y ago
    Because the inmates need to convert their balance into goods in the prison. They don't have cash, just an "account" with the prison operator.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Pretty much "diddly squat".
- ajb 12y ago
  A genuine question: What do you think is utility of this reply? Have you thought about what effect this and similar comments might have (in aggregate) on the political process?
  - jessaustin 12y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that the "political process" is part of the problem? There are other options.
    - jMyles 12y ago
      Are those laid out succinctly somewhere? In a manner that's easy to follow and implement? More importantly - are those options peaceful? Is that a distinction even worth thinking about?
tehwebguy 12y ago
Would be cool to try using a different credit card and charging it back every time. They will pay $15 - $25 per dispute. Also would probably be fraud, and potentially impact the inmate.
bcoates 12y ago
A good place to start is to refuse to cooperate with evil. The justice system depends on the active and passive cooperation of the general public. Do not call the police. If the police wish to speak with you, on any matter, politely decline. If a known police or corrections employee tries to do business with you or at a place you work, inform them that their kind are not welcome here. Don't underestimate the extent to which people are driven by the need to be welcomed and accepted by society. Shunning is a powerful tool of social control. If you're more the "positive" type, consider encouraging your company to drop its official or unofficial policy against hiring felons (I'm making a reasonably safe assumption here). There are subsidies, tax credits, and insurance programs that might help your case, but it's easier to just not bother. Be the troublemaker that makes it easier to do the right thing.
- Chronic29 12y ago
  And quite many people are self-motivated/satisfaction and do not need extrinsic motivation. Even if they are shunned they will still continue to behave as the normally would have.
- morgante 12y ago
  > Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    Maybe the advice is don't call the police unless you absolutely have to. Now you might ask, well who calls the police just for fun or when they don't need them. Well when there is a family dispute I heard once a parent would call the police to "talk some sense" into their child who is throwing a tantrum. Then police come and child in a hysterical state swats at them with a spoon and gets shot and killed on the spot. You might see neighbours across the street being loud, call the police and they come to your house instead and shoot your dog. So by no means call if you have but know how to interact with them.
vacri 12y ago
Start out by talking to your local representative. Raise the issue with them and keep at it. Encourage others to talk to your rep or the reps in their area.
corford 12y ago
Start a kickstarter campaign to create a not for profit, ethical competitor to JPay? Providing the prisons still get a similar commission (which according to the article isn't where the lion's share of the fees comes from), why wouldn't they opt to go with a payments firm that gives them good PR? Edit: alternatively, maybe the stripe guys could fund/seed a philanthropic off-shoot to tackle this?
- felixc 12y ago
  Because of this (quoting from the article): "To impress state corrections officials and gain their business, JPay spends heavily on industry conventions attended by agency heads with contracting authority. During a 2012 convention of the American Correctional Association, the company threw what it called an “END OF THE WORLD PARTY” at a Denver wine bar that bills itself as “about you, and your inalienable right to the unbridled enjoyment of food and wine.” The invitation, printed on a disposable beer coaster, promised “a bash, JPay-style: fuerte tequila, hand-rolled cigars, a live mariachi band.” Conventioneers could catch a JPay shuttle leaving from the hotel “ALL NIGHT LONG,” it said."
  - corford 12y ago
    That actually makes it easier. Build a non-profit competitor, get the press, charities & public behind it and shame the fuckers in to switching. With material like that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
    - felixc 12y ago
      One would hope so, but I suspect that they don't care about public perception, and a surprisingly large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families.
      - jMyles 12y ago
        > large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families. I refuse to believe this.
crb002 12y ago
Lobby the correctional facility to use Dwolla.
spiritplumber 12y ago
Do not fuck the police. Do not sell to police.
rhizome 12y ago
In the SF Bay Area there is a company called Telmate that has been posting job listings on Reddit and Craigslist at least for the past year or two. Telmate is a prison-phone company that charges slave-wage-earning prisoners a week's pay for a 20min call.
calibraxis 12y ago
This is what activists do. The world isn't what you learn in civics class. There's no benevolent bureaucrat or 4-year king who'll give you the tools to fundamentally fix such problems. If you need that, then you're trained in helplessness, like cult members. (Who may pledge allegiance to cult symbols, spend half their day in a communal workplace under a leader's command and watchful eye, etc.)
candu 12y ago
On a more constructive note than "fuck the police", the ACLU has been fighting this fight for some time now: https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-national-prison-project https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-national-prison-p... Regardless of whether you're inclined to give them your money/time, their site is worth reading to get an overview of the specific issues here.

by jMyles 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deadfall 12y ago

I am a victim of these ridiculous fees. I thought about how someone was getting rich and I justified the fees because of the convenience. It most certainly cut back how much I sent and how frequently I used it. This directly affects the incarcerated person. Side note: PayPal allows you to send money to friends and family for free.

egwor 12y ago
Question: why can't paypal be used here as a viable competing solution?
- Swannie 12y ago
  Because the inmates need to convert their balance into goods in the prison. They don't have cash, just an "account" with the prison operator.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

Pretty much "diddly squat".

ajb 12y ago
A genuine question: What do you think is utility of this reply? Have you thought about what effect this and similar comments might have (in aggregate) on the political process?
- jessaustin 12y ago
  Have you considered the possibility that the "political process" is part of the problem? There are other options.
  - jMyles 12y ago
    Are those laid out succinctly somewhere? In a manner that's easy to follow and implement? More importantly - are those options peaceful? Is that a distinction even worth thinking about?

tehwebguy 12y ago

Would be cool to try using a different credit card and charging it back every time. They will pay $15 - $25 per dispute. Also would probably be fraud, and potentially impact the inmate.

bcoates 12y ago

A good place to start is to refuse to cooperate with evil. The justice system depends on the active and passive cooperation of the general public. Do not call the police. If the police wish to speak with you, on any matter, politely decline. If a known police or corrections employee tries to do business with you or at a place you work, inform them that their kind are not welcome here. Don't underestimate the extent to which people are driven by the need to be welcomed and accepted by society. Shunning is a powerful tool of social control. If you're more the "positive" type, consider encouraging your company to drop its official or unofficial policy against hiring felons (I'm making a reasonably safe assumption here). There are subsidies, tax credits, and insurance programs that might help your case, but it's easier to just not bother. Be the troublemaker that makes it easier to do the right thing.

Chronic29 12y ago
And quite many people are self-motivated/satisfaction and do not need extrinsic motivation. Even if they are shunned they will still continue to behave as the normally would have.
morgante 12y ago
> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  Maybe the advice is don't call the police unless you absolutely have to. Now you might ask, well who calls the police just for fun or when they don't need them. Well when there is a family dispute I heard once a parent would call the police to "talk some sense" into their child who is throwing a tantrum. Then police come and child in a hysterical state swats at them with a spoon and gets shot and killed on the spot. You might see neighbours across the street being loud, call the police and they come to your house instead and shoot your dog. So by no means call if you have but know how to interact with them.

vacri 12y ago

Start out by talking to your local representative. Raise the issue with them and keep at it. Encourage others to talk to your rep or the reps in their area.

corford 12y ago

Start a kickstarter campaign to create a not for profit, ethical competitor to JPay? Providing the prisons still get a similar commission (which according to the article isn't where the lion's share of the fees comes from), why wouldn't they opt to go with a payments firm that gives them good PR? Edit: alternatively, maybe the stripe guys could fund/seed a philanthropic off-shoot to tackle this?

felixc 12y ago
Because of this (quoting from the article): "To impress state corrections officials and gain their business, JPay spends heavily on industry conventions attended by agency heads with contracting authority. During a 2012 convention of the American Correctional Association, the company threw what it called an “END OF THE WORLD PARTY” at a Denver wine bar that bills itself as “about you, and your inalienable right to the unbridled enjoyment of food and wine.” The invitation, printed on a disposable beer coaster, promised “a bash, JPay-style: fuerte tequila, hand-rolled cigars, a live mariachi band.” Conventioneers could catch a JPay shuttle leaving from the hotel “ALL NIGHT LONG,” it said."
- corford 12y ago
  That actually makes it easier. Build a non-profit competitor, get the press, charities & public behind it and shame the fuckers in to switching. With material like that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
  - felixc 12y ago
    One would hope so, but I suspect that they don't care about public perception, and a surprisingly large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families.
    - jMyles 12y ago
      > large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families. I refuse to believe this.

crb002 12y ago

Lobby the correctional facility to use Dwolla.

spiritplumber 12y ago

Do not fuck the police. Do not sell to police.

rhizome 12y ago

In the SF Bay Area there is a company called Telmate that has been posting job listings on Reddit and Craigslist at least for the past year or two. Telmate is a prison-phone company that charges slave-wage-earning prisoners a week's pay for a 20min call.

calibraxis 12y ago

This is what activists do. The world isn't what you learn in civics class. There's no benevolent bureaucrat or 4-year king who'll give you the tools to fundamentally fix such problems. If you need that, then you're trained in helplessness, like cult members. (Who may pledge allegiance to cult symbols, spend half their day in a communal workplace under a leader's command and watchful eye, etc.)

candu 12y ago

On a more constructive note than "fuck the police", the ACLU has been fighting this fight for some time now: https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-national-prison-project https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-national-prison-p... Regardless of whether you're inclined to give them your money/time, their site is worth reading to get an overview of the specific issues here.