8 ms·

Microsoft unveils Windows 10 system with Start Menu

37 points by kostyk 12y ago

seanalltogether 12y ago
I really want to know what MS is doing with their app store. They only let you sell metro style apps that are forced onto a far more restricted sdk. If they're continuing to backpedal on metro on the desktop side, does this mean they'll start opening up the app store?
eyeareque 12y ago
So the big headline about Microsoft's new OS is that it has a start menu. Really?
- readerrrr 12y ago
  Yes, it is a very important feature for almost all types of users, and most are lost without it.
chaostheory 12y ago
> The name is a surprise, bearing in mind it represents a jump from the last version - Windows 8. I'm guessing this is because for some reason in Japanese culture 9 is a very bad, unlucky number like how 13 is bad in most Western cultures.
- Ideka 12y ago
  No. The japanese consider 4 and sometimes 7 to be "unlucky numbers". 9 is fine.
  - stagger87 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions
  - chaostheory 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions > There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 and 9 are unlucky. Four is sometimes pronounced shi, which is also the word for death. Nine is also sometimes pronounced ku, which can mean suffering... Because of these unlucky numbers, sometimes levels or rooms with 4 or 9 don't exist in hospitals or hotels, and particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, I've never heard of 7 being an unlucky number for any culture. Then again someone can prove me wrong.
what_ever 12y ago
A quick preview here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- readerrrr 12y ago
  A First Look at Windows 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_XJNk_DHqrffXCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_X...
dvcc 12y ago
I just don't understand anything that Microsoft seems to be doing lately. Random version numbers, a UI full of mismatched colors and a phone OS that has gone so far from its roots its just confusing. I mean sure they seem to be getting more dev friendly, but my god their end products are getting so far off track.
- pavlov 12y ago
  The random version numbers thing is more than 20 years old. The first version of Windows NT was numbered 3.1, and since then we've had: 3.5, 4.0, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 So "7" and "8" were anomalies in that they actually matched the indices in this sequence.
  - trusche 12y ago
    Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/528/ http://xkcd.com/528/
  - wvenable 12y ago
    This makes Microsoft consistent in its inconsistency but that is still not a good thing. When it comes to Windows, Microsoft appears to have only two values: strict adherence to backwards compatibility and changing everything else as much possible.
    - HCIdivision17 12y ago
      That's a funny quip, but a moment's reflection reminds me how shockingly incredible that is. The obsessive need to be backwards compatible combined with the pathological need to change (and by hopeful extension improve) must take a simply astonishing amount of manpower and ingenuity. I mean, usually the two seem mutually exclusive. I have no idea if it's worth it, but it's definitely an awe-inspiring machine. Getting Windows to function across so many platforms can only cubicly raise the difficulty of maintaining compatibility. If that's not the yawning abyss of a long-term tech support hell, I don't know what is.
  - Macha 12y ago
readerrrr 12y ago
All I care is if I can set the theme back to classic, to resemble grey windows nt/2000 style. They mentioned that the start menu search is now also going to search the web. Please make an option to disable that! Also no mention of a clipboard manager. Personally I cannot work without a clip history, I don't understand how can you be productive without it.
- iLoch 12y ago
  http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-Windows-95/dp/B000NRY05G http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-Windows-95/dp/B000N...
  - kostyk 12y ago
    i save $2,460.20 ?? really?
paulojreis 12y ago
It's mesmerizing how a company such as Microsoft keeps shipping user interface incarnations of the Frankenstein's monster. The lack of vision, even identity, is astonishing.
- acqq 12y ago
  Exactly. The new Start menu looks like something you'd prefer to be blocked by an ad blocker (and I don't even use ad blockers in my browsers!) than like something you'd like to see every time you try to start an application. The reason "start screen" was annoying compared to the "start menu" was that the "screen" removed everything you worked at up to that point. They managed to do nearly the same in the demo screens of the new "start menu." Talented.
Someone1234 12y ago
Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed? Everyone else is talking about the Start Menu and name. That's all fun and good but it isn't very substantive. The only actual feature which I've read about is Virtual Desktops (which was already obtainable via the "Desktops" TechNet download[0]). If those are all the improvements Microsoft has to talk about then frankly what the heck have they been doing for the past several years? Windows 8 for all of its problems was a substantial change that likely took a lot of work. The difference between 8.1 and "10" is far from substantive. [0]http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.asp...
- iLoch 12y ago
  That may be a reason why they're offering it for free - it does seem more like a downgrade (somewhere between 7 and 8) than an upgrade (somehow jumping up two major versions for a smaller than average feature set.)
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    Microsoft hasn't confirmed (or denied) that "free upgrade" rumour.
- dvcc 12y ago
  Anyone else remember the huge changes that used to come around OS releases? I remember the jump from Windows XP to Windows Longhorn (http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/007363/original/02.png http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/007363/original/02...). The revisions were ambitious and challenging. All OS releases have seem to kind of lost that recently. But that might just be a plateau we have reached.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Oh god that UI, sent shivers down my spine. Skeumorphism can die in a fire.
    - 12y ago
BrianEatWorld 12y ago
I follow Windows development fairly closely and even do some Windows Phone (phone) development on the side, but this version number thing has me scratching my head. The explanation in the article doesn't help much either. If I recall correctly, the number 9 is considered lucky in a wide variety of places, which seems like it would help sales on a subconscious level. Introspectively, it worries me that I have read three articles about Windows 10 this afternoon and instead of recalling any new features, all I can think about is the version number...
- blisterpeanuts 12y ago
  Well, "nine" sounds like "no" in German...
  - wflann 12y ago
    Don't worry, German also has a word for the number.
    - Igglyboo 12y ago
      Neun(9) and Nein(no) still sound extremely similar however.
      - ginko 12y ago
        German native speaker here. They don't really sound that similar.
        Igglyboo 12y ago
        Oh well thanks for clearing that up then, I took a german class in high school but apparently not a very good one as i remembering them being extremely similar. Maybe my english ears lol
majc2 12y ago
Surely the bigger news is that it appears to be the same OS on all MS devices?
blisterpeanuts 12y ago
It seems to me that Microsoft committed a faux-pas when it tried to revamp the user interface. The huge installed base of WinXP-Win7 style UI is an asset, not a liability. People have memorized how to use it; they don't want to throw away all that effort. Notice how Apple has resisted drastically revamping their own desktop/laptop UI. It's not a touch/tablet UI, and it shouldn't try to be, as long as we continue to use keyboards and mouse/trackpads to work with it.
- bad_user 12y ago
  And I'm not seeing us give up traditional keyboards at least, or mice or trackpads for that matter, trackpads which can also be multi-touch, because they are very efficient for what they do ... writing text + pointing at things without your hand blocking your vision, which is tied to the other advantage of the traditional "PC", which is the ability to use big-ass monitors. I remember the craze of tablets 2 years ago, they were supposed to be the death of PCs. Now sales are declining and many tables turned out to be dust-gathering paper holders, because compared to phones, you can't carry them in your pocket. For Microsoft to try its hand at a laptop/tablet hybrid was the worst mistake ever; instead of making Windows the best PC OS available, they broke it even further than it was. And it's 2014 and that Command Prompt is still retarded, with millions of software developers suffering because of it, with many of them not even realizing it.
  - bratsche 12y ago
    It sounds like they may at least be trying to work on the command prompt: http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in-windows-threshold/ http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in...
    - bad_user 12y ago
      Well, that's actually good to hear. A redesigned command prompt would make me reconsider Windows faster than flashy things that interfere with my ADHD :-)
n-gauge 12y ago
Although it looks like Microsoft are trying to appease users with this release, I'm finding myself still leaning towards Android L for quick app development (using a java wrapped Chrome Web View). I know Android is considered fragmented at the moment, but I would only consider developing for 'L' and above as the new Chrome Web View would suffice. Does Microsoft offer anything similar which can build apps using free tools (and isn't cloud based)?
- Fuzzwah 12y ago
  I figure Visual Studio Express is what you're after... http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-exp...
jstalin 12y ago
Hopefully this will also include the re-introduction of the "hotdog stand" color scheme.
- Sanddancer 12y ago
  I threw one together for seven that almost works for eight as well over at http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attredirects=0&d=1 http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attr... . Hopefully, it should work for ten too.
  - jstalin 12y ago
    Good god.
  - Fuzzwah 12y ago
    I dug up a link to a screenshot: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/45220_original.png http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/4522...
Aardwolf 12y ago
Such innovation?
FreeKill 12y ago
Personally, the biggest improvement to Windows for me would be the ability to install the same copy of the OS multiple times, personally, for a reasonable price. I have a laptop, desktop, and I'd also love to run a couple of virtual machines as well. I think having multiple personal uses is pretty common, and they need to change their licensing to be more flexible for that type of environment, without needing a separate license for each installation...
trvr 12y ago
This guy nailed it: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-skips--too-good--windows-9--jumps-to-windows-10.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/m...
agumonkey 12y ago
Underwhelming. cmd text selection[1], start+tiles .. come on Microsoft you can do better. Snap assist, as simple as it looks might be the nicest thing demoed, dealing with windows is such a time waster, having windows hand a one-click way to do that might prove zen inducing to many many people. First time I feel a sense of workflow in the UI (doing something on one window will make the OS react and fill in with another object). Very valuable. [1] take a look at babun for nix complete shell, and for windows purists, just use powershell and pipe the result to the Mail app.
ende 12y ago
Did they bring back DOS?

37 points by kostyk 12y ago

I really want to know what MS is doing with their app store. They only let you sell metro style apps that are forced onto a far more restricted sdk. If they're continuing to backpedal on metro on the desktop side, does this mean they'll start opening up the app store?

eyeareque 12y ago

So the big headline about Microsoft's new OS is that it has a start menu. Really?

readerrrr 12y ago
Yes, it is a very important feature for almost all types of users, and most are lost without it.

chaostheory 12y ago

> The name is a surprise, bearing in mind it represents a jump from the last version - Windows 8. I'm guessing this is because for some reason in Japanese culture 9 is a very bad, unlucky number like how 13 is bad in most Western cultures.

Ideka 12y ago
No. The japanese consider 4 and sometimes 7 to be "unlucky numbers". 9 is fine.
- stagger87 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions
- chaostheory 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions > There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 and 9 are unlucky. Four is sometimes pronounced shi, which is also the word for death. Nine is also sometimes pronounced ku, which can mean suffering... Because of these unlucky numbers, sometimes levels or rooms with 4 or 9 don't exist in hospitals or hotels, and particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, I've never heard of 7 being an unlucky number for any culture. Then again someone can prove me wrong.

what_ever 12y ago

A quick preview here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
readerrrr 12y ago
A First Look at Windows 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_XJNk_DHqrffXCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_X...

dvcc 12y ago

I just don't understand anything that Microsoft seems to be doing lately. Random version numbers, a UI full of mismatched colors and a phone OS that has gone so far from its roots its just confusing. I mean sure they seem to be getting more dev friendly, but my god their end products are getting so far off track.

pavlov 12y ago
The random version numbers thing is more than 20 years old. The first version of Windows NT was numbered 3.1, and since then we've had: 3.5, 4.0, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 So "7" and "8" were anomalies in that they actually matched the indices in this sequence.
- trusche 12y ago
  Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/528/ http://xkcd.com/528/
- wvenable 12y ago
  This makes Microsoft consistent in its inconsistency but that is still not a good thing. When it comes to Windows, Microsoft appears to have only two values: strict adherence to backwards compatibility and changing everything else as much possible.
  - HCIdivision17 12y ago
    That's a funny quip, but a moment's reflection reminds me how shockingly incredible that is. The obsessive need to be backwards compatible combined with the pathological need to change (and by hopeful extension improve) must take a simply astonishing amount of manpower and ingenuity. I mean, usually the two seem mutually exclusive. I have no idea if it's worth it, but it's definitely an awe-inspiring machine. Getting Windows to function across so many platforms can only cubicly raise the difficulty of maintaining compatibility. If that's not the yawning abyss of a long-term tech support hell, I don't know what is.
- Macha 12y ago

readerrrr 12y ago

All I care is if I can set the theme back to classic, to resemble grey windows nt/2000 style. They mentioned that the start menu search is now also going to search the web. Please make an option to disable that! Also no mention of a clipboard manager. Personally I cannot work without a clip history, I don't understand how can you be productive without it.

iLoch 12y ago
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-Windows-95/dp/B000NRY05G http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-Windows-95/dp/B000N...
- kostyk 12y ago
  i save $2,460.20 ?? really?

paulojreis 12y ago

It's mesmerizing how a company such as Microsoft keeps shipping user interface incarnations of the Frankenstein's monster. The lack of vision, even identity, is astonishing.

acqq 12y ago
Exactly. The new Start menu looks like something you'd prefer to be blocked by an ad blocker (and I don't even use ad blockers in my browsers!) than like something you'd like to see every time you try to start an application. The reason "start screen" was annoying compared to the "start menu" was that the "screen" removed everything you worked at up to that point. They managed to do nearly the same in the demo screens of the new "start menu." Talented.

Someone1234 12y ago

Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed? Everyone else is talking about the Start Menu and name. That's all fun and good but it isn't very substantive. The only actual feature which I've read about is Virtual Desktops (which was already obtainable via the "Desktops" TechNet download[0]). If those are all the improvements Microsoft has to talk about then frankly what the heck have they been doing for the past several years? Windows 8 for all of its problems was a substantial change that likely took a lot of work. The difference between 8.1 and "10" is far from substantive. [0]http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.asp...

iLoch 12y ago
That may be a reason why they're offering it for free - it does seem more like a downgrade (somewhere between 7 and 8) than an upgrade (somehow jumping up two major versions for a smaller than average feature set.)
- Someone1234 12y ago
  Microsoft hasn't confirmed (or denied) that "free upgrade" rumour.
dvcc 12y ago
Anyone else remember the huge changes that used to come around OS releases? I remember the jump from Windows XP to Windows Longhorn (http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/007363/original/02.png http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/007363/original/02...). The revisions were ambitious and challenging. All OS releases have seem to kind of lost that recently. But that might just be a plateau we have reached.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  Oh god that UI, sent shivers down my spine. Skeumorphism can die in a fire.
  - 12y ago

BrianEatWorld 12y ago

I follow Windows development fairly closely and even do some Windows Phone (phone) development on the side, but this version number thing has me scratching my head. The explanation in the article doesn't help much either. If I recall correctly, the number 9 is considered lucky in a wide variety of places, which seems like it would help sales on a subconscious level. Introspectively, it worries me that I have read three articles about Windows 10 this afternoon and instead of recalling any new features, all I can think about is the version number...

blisterpeanuts 12y ago
Well, "nine" sounds like "no" in German...
- wflann 12y ago
  Don't worry, German also has a word for the number.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Neun(9) and Nein(no) still sound extremely similar however.
    - ginko 12y ago
      German native speaker here. They don't really sound that similar.
      - Igglyboo 12y ago
        Oh well thanks for clearing that up then, I took a german class in high school but apparently not a very good one as i remembering them being extremely similar. Maybe my english ears lol

majc2 12y ago

Surely the bigger news is that it appears to be the same OS on all MS devices?

blisterpeanuts 12y ago

It seems to me that Microsoft committed a faux-pas when it tried to revamp the user interface. The huge installed base of WinXP-Win7 style UI is an asset, not a liability. People have memorized how to use it; they don't want to throw away all that effort. Notice how Apple has resisted drastically revamping their own desktop/laptop UI. It's not a touch/tablet UI, and it shouldn't try to be, as long as we continue to use keyboards and mouse/trackpads to work with it.

bad_user 12y ago
And I'm not seeing us give up traditional keyboards at least, or mice or trackpads for that matter, trackpads which can also be multi-touch, because they are very efficient for what they do ... writing text + pointing at things without your hand blocking your vision, which is tied to the other advantage of the traditional "PC", which is the ability to use big-ass monitors. I remember the craze of tablets 2 years ago, they were supposed to be the death of PCs. Now sales are declining and many tables turned out to be dust-gathering paper holders, because compared to phones, you can't carry them in your pocket. For Microsoft to try its hand at a laptop/tablet hybrid was the worst mistake ever; instead of making Windows the best PC OS available, they broke it even further than it was. And it's 2014 and that Command Prompt is still retarded, with millions of software developers suffering because of it, with many of them not even realizing it.
- bratsche 12y ago
  It sounds like they may at least be trying to work on the command prompt: http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in-windows-threshold/ http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in...
  - bad_user 12y ago
    Well, that's actually good to hear. A redesigned command prompt would make me reconsider Windows faster than flashy things that interfere with my ADHD :-)

n-gauge 12y ago

Although it looks like Microsoft are trying to appease users with this release, I'm finding myself still leaning towards Android L for quick app development (using a java wrapped Chrome Web View). I know Android is considered fragmented at the moment, but I would only consider developing for 'L' and above as the new Chrome Web View would suffice. Does Microsoft offer anything similar which can build apps using free tools (and isn't cloud based)?

Fuzzwah 12y ago
I figure Visual Studio Express is what you're after... http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-exp...

jstalin 12y ago

Hopefully this will also include the re-introduction of the "hotdog stand" color scheme.

Sanddancer 12y ago
I threw one together for seven that almost works for eight as well over at http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attredirects=0&d=1 http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attr... . Hopefully, it should work for ten too.
- jstalin 12y ago
  Good god.
- Fuzzwah 12y ago
  I dug up a link to a screenshot: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/45220_original.png http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/4522...

Aardwolf 12y ago

Such innovation?

FreeKill 12y ago

Personally, the biggest improvement to Windows for me would be the ability to install the same copy of the OS multiple times, personally, for a reasonable price. I have a laptop, desktop, and I'd also love to run a couple of virtual machines as well. I think having multiple personal uses is pretty common, and they need to change their licensing to be more flexible for that type of environment, without needing a separate license for each installation...

trvr 12y ago

This guy nailed it: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-skips--too-good--windows-9--jumps-to-windows-10.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/m...

agumonkey 12y ago

Underwhelming. cmd text selection[1], start+tiles .. come on Microsoft you can do better. Snap assist, as simple as it looks might be the nicest thing demoed, dealing with windows is such a time waster, having windows hand a one-click way to do that might prove zen inducing to many many people. First time I feel a sense of workflow in the UI (doing something on one window will make the OS react and fill in with another object). Very valuable. [1] take a look at babun for nix complete shell, and for windows purists, just use powershell and pipe the result to the Mail app.

ende 12y ago

Did they bring back DOS?