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Yes, which is why when you sign a work contract, you should be sure to strike that clause... or not work for them in the beginning. At most small- to mid-sized

Yes, which is why when you sign a work contract, you should be sure to strike that clause... or not work for them in the beginning. At most small- to mid-sized businesses, the work contract is totally negotiable. And if you're amazing enough, at big ones, too.

goatforce5 17y ago
I got my last two full time-gigs precisely because of my part-time project. Both of them were more than happy to add a clause to my contract acknowledging the prior existence and continuing independence of my side-project.
- gruseom 17y ago
  An exemption for a particular, pre-existing side project is easy to get. That's not the same thing as striking the general clause, which is what the thread was about and which is considerably harder.
idlewords 17y ago
In my experience, that kind of thing tends to be non-negotiable at large companies. They figure that if you are really so amazing, you're likely to have some great ideas worth keeping.
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  Here's the secret trick to negotiating, even with big companies. They have to need you more than you need them. And you have to say "This is non-negotiable to me" and mean it. If they won't bend on the contract, you don't work for them. Lots of people say that negotiating is hard, but that's not really true. Yes, it's tough to walk away from something you want -- and if you prefer to compromise, rather than walk away, that's fine, but that doesn't make the actual negotiation hard. It means that you don't want the concession badly enough to walk away. Negotiation doesn't mean you always get your way, but it means you don't bend when you don't want to bend. The likelihood that you or I would have enough leverage (e.g. they want us more than we want them) to throw around with Google, say, is very low. But there ARE people out there who do have enough leverage, by dint of fame, connections, history (what they've worked on), experience and exclusive experience. I negotiated every job I've ever had, including one where (while employed) I negotiated a 4-day work week, and another where I got them to pay for any conference I spoke at - regardless of whether it was job-related. Not to mention salary increases and profit sharing. The brutal fact is that most people don't try. Most people, in such situations, are so excited/starry-eyed by the idea that X is interested in THEM, that they don't stop to think who holds the position of power in the relationship.
  - neilk 17y ago
    But there ARE people out there who do have enough leverage, by dint of fame, connections, history (what they've worked on), experience and exclusive experience. Not at Google. This may arguably be a shortsighted move, but Google often walks away from the table even after they've spent months wooing some luminary. The prima donna attitude is usually a fast way to get a NO HIRE. Pretty much any employee at Google feels perfectly comfortable saying NO HIRE to absolutely anybody. This attitude is encouraged at the highest levels. I guarantee you that if Linus Torvalds himself were being interviewed, some jackass would still be giving him questions about missionaries and cannibals crossing a river. And if he didn't get it, they'd write "not mentally agile enough" on the interview report.

goatforce5 17y ago

I got my last two full time-gigs precisely because of my part-time project. Both of them were more than happy to add a clause to my contract acknowledging the prior existence and continuing independence of my side-project.

gruseom 17y ago
An exemption for a particular, pre-existing side project is easy to get. That's not the same thing as striking the general clause, which is what the thread was about and which is considerably harder.

idlewords 17y ago

In my experience, that kind of thing tends to be non-negotiable at large companies. They figure that if you are really so amazing, you're likely to have some great ideas worth keeping.

ahoyhere 17y ago
Here's the secret trick to negotiating, even with big companies. They have to need you more than you need them. And you have to say "This is non-negotiable to me" and mean it. If they won't bend on the contract, you don't work for them. Lots of people say that negotiating is hard, but that's not really true. Yes, it's tough to walk away from something you want -- and if you prefer to compromise, rather than walk away, that's fine, but that doesn't make the actual negotiation hard. It means that you don't want the concession badly enough to walk away. Negotiation doesn't mean you always get your way, but it means you don't bend when you don't want to bend. The likelihood that you or I would have enough leverage (e.g. they want us more than we want them) to throw around with Google, say, is very low. But there ARE people out there who do have enough leverage, by dint of fame, connections, history (what they've worked on), experience and exclusive experience. I negotiated every job I've ever had, including one where (while employed) I negotiated a 4-day work week, and another where I got them to pay for any conference I spoke at - regardless of whether it was job-related. Not to mention salary increases and profit sharing. The brutal fact is that most people don't try. Most people, in such situations, are so excited/starry-eyed by the idea that X is interested in THEM, that they don't stop to think who holds the position of power in the relationship.
- neilk 17y ago
  But there ARE people out there who do have enough leverage, by dint of fame, connections, history (what they've worked on), experience and exclusive experience. Not at Google. This may arguably be a shortsighted move, but Google often walks away from the table even after they've spent months wooing some luminary. The prima donna attitude is usually a fast way to get a NO HIRE. Pretty much any employee at Google feels perfectly comfortable saying NO HIRE to absolutely anybody. This attitude is encouraged at the highest levels. I guarantee you that if Linus Torvalds himself were being interviewed, some jackass would still be giving him questions about missionaries and cannibals crossing a river. And if he didn't get it, they'd write "not mentally agile enough" on the interview report.