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I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense and shows the quality of most "Go lacks generics" discussions. Go manages to do so many things so much better than C [0], t

by zuzun 12y ago

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense and shows the quality of most "Go lacks generics" discussions. Go manages to do so many things so much better than C [0], the boldness of your statement leaves me speechless. [0] Just to name a few: Go has packages instead of header files, one simple build command instead of Makefiles, embedded structs, interfaces, allows you to declare functions everywhere, multiple return values, panics, a huge (!) platform independent standard library, native platform independent concurrency, saner string handling, lists, dictionaries, iota, cross-platform and cross-architecture code via file names instead of macros + autotools, ... I really can't understand how people dismiss all of this and claim a programming language is useless because it lacks a single feature.

pessimizer 12y ago
I think that when you call something utter nonsense, and name a lot of reasons why you think it's utter nonsense, you should be obligated to explain at least one. It's not clear why the features you mention are better than their C equivalents.
- NateDad 12y ago
  Uh, which of those aren't just blatantly obvious? (Totally serious question)
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    None of them are obvious to me at that level of detail. (Totally serious answer)
norswap 12y ago
You misunderstand me. I am not saying C does things better than Go. I am saying it is less expressive. In the sense that there are a lot of things you simply cannot implement in C, whereas you can implement them -- in an ugly and unsafe fashion, it is true -- in C. Generics is not the only example. You can easily get exceptions in C with setjmp and longjmp for instance. You can even get garbage collection in C (and not only talking about the conservative Boehm stuff, you can use fat pointers -- yes it's unwieldy and ugly, but it works). As for all the niceties, yes there are there, but you can implement most of them in C also (and, in fact, people have). You'll notice I did not even say C was better than Go. My actual thoughts on the matter is that they're not made for the same use cases -- albeit one of my problem with Go was always figuring its use case. Apparently I'm not the only one confused, because the language creators expected to get C users, they got Python user instead. As you said yourself, it has more niceties, so maybe it is kind of a middleground when more performance or concurrency is needed, but C is deemed to tricky or unsafe. As I have learned to navigate my ways around C's pitfalls (and boy, there are some pitfalls!), I don't think I'll ever be tempted to use Go (at least, if the language doesn't change significantly). I'm also not some kind of C fanatic, I use Java, Ruby or Python if it gets the job done; and while I don't really use them for actual work, I have a soft spot for some functional languages.
- bitg 12y ago
  You could compare any language to machine language and you can say that language is less powerful. Go is not even close to the power of C and assembly. I'm not gonna even try to argue.

by zuzun 12y ago

pessimizer 12y ago

I think that when you call something utter nonsense, and name a lot of reasons why you think it's utter nonsense, you should be obligated to explain at least one. It's not clear why the features you mention are better than their C equivalents.

NateDad 12y ago
Uh, which of those aren't just blatantly obvious? (Totally serious question)
- pessimizer 12y ago
  None of them are obvious to me at that level of detail. (Totally serious answer)

norswap 12y ago

You misunderstand me. I am not saying C does things better than Go. I am saying it is less expressive. In the sense that there are a lot of things you simply cannot implement in C, whereas you can implement them -- in an ugly and unsafe fashion, it is true -- in C. Generics is not the only example. You can easily get exceptions in C with setjmp and longjmp for instance. You can even get garbage collection in C (and not only talking about the conservative Boehm stuff, you can use fat pointers -- yes it's unwieldy and ugly, but it works). As for all the niceties, yes there are there, but you can implement most of them in C also (and, in fact, people have). You'll notice I did not even say C was better than Go. My actual thoughts on the matter is that they're not made for the same use cases -- albeit one of my problem with Go was always figuring its use case. Apparently I'm not the only one confused, because the language creators expected to get C users, they got Python user instead. As you said yourself, it has more niceties, so maybe it is kind of a middleground when more performance or concurrency is needed, but C is deemed to tricky or unsafe. As I have learned to navigate my ways around C's pitfalls (and boy, there are some pitfalls!), I don't think I'll ever be tempted to use Go (at least, if the language doesn't change significantly). I'm also not some kind of C fanatic, I use Java, Ruby or Python if it gets the job done; and while I don't really use them for actual work, I have a soft spot for some functional languages.

bitg 12y ago
You could compare any language to machine language and you can say that language is less powerful. Go is not even close to the power of C and assembly. I'm not gonna even try to argue.