7 ms·

Work Habits at Apple

154 points by libovness 12y ago

smackfu 12y ago
It's nice when people write up podcasts. There's so much content locked up in them that is only appreciated by 1% of the audience compared to when the same people write blog posts.
- elo 12y ago
  Author of the blog post here. I had this idea to start a site for crowdsourced podcast transcripts (or indeed any audio content) but never did it. I’d still love to see such a site because I agree that there is so much valuable content. But transcription is just a huge amount of work and I’m not sure how well you could automate it with the help of software.
  - wf 12y ago
    Seems like it's time for podcast.genius.com, which would be amazing.
  - laacz 12y ago
    That idea crossed my mind even seeing how many companies failed even during boom times. Service could be powered by some speech recognition software (maybe more than one) which initially would give insane percentage of incorrectly recognized text. Community could fix those errors (weak link in my plan:)). Afterwards you feed data back to software and train it so next time it would work better. Training would require marking which person talks when in episode to tune algorithms for each of them. Maybe group them by regional dialects. Oh, another tiny small thingie - not clear how to monetize that.
    - elo 12y ago
      Agreed about monetization. Ideally, this should be a community thing like Wikipedia but that’s probably unrealistic. I really think it would be an amazing resource. There would be so much great content that the site would potentially rank really high on Google for a variety of search terms, too (again, like Wikipedia).
    - jkaunisv1 12y ago
      Monetization: you could sell the service to professional podcasters as it would increase content on their site, and possibly serve as another place to put ads for their sponsors. If you focused on a core set of popular podcasts you could package it as a monthly ebook or similar product. While overall people don't like paying for content like that I think it's possible to find a niche market that would.
  - jkaunisv1 12y ago
    I don't, but people seem to actually use stuff like Siri, which tells me some amount of automated audio processing is currently feasible.
    - smackfu 12y ago
      I just tried it, and voice dictation on the iPhone does a surprisingly good job with a well produced podcast. It's missing all punctuation of course, and tends to make a lot of mistakes on small words like prepositions. But for a first pass to edit from, it is surprisingly good.
  - smackfu 12y ago
    I honestly think the blog approach where you highlight sections is the best way to do it. General transcripts are indeed almost impossible to do, especially when there are weekly shows that run for over two hours each episode.
  - nighthawk454 12y ago
    Google has some pretty good software for this, thought it might be internal. When they have their "Talks at Google" events, there's a screen off to the side that provides real-time translated subtitles. There's at least one talk where the speaker addresses this system, and tries to get it to transcribe funny stuff. Can't remember which one exactly, but it might be this one with Randall Munroe (xkcd). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24&list=UUbmNph6atAoGfqLoCL_duAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24&list=UUbmNph6atA...
  - x0x0 12y ago
    Transcription is already down to $1/minute. If $60 for an hour-long podcast isn't worth it to the authors, I'm not sure there's much value there. https://castingwords.com/ https://castingwords.com/
normloman 12y ago
Why would anyone subject themselves to this torture? It's not worth it. You're making money that you can't enjoy. You're missing out on your kids childhood to design a smartphone.
- odonnellryan 12y ago
  It's fun. Instead of spending 40-50 hours a week doing something you might or might not enjoy, you're on the cutting edge, and you're doing something you definitely enjoy. Doesn't make it worth it, but that's part of it?
  - tannerc 12y ago
    I think you've outlined something really important here in terms of value and individualism. Some people get value from spending time in the great outdoors, others by growing and caring for a family, for a large number of people (I imagine) in Silicon Valley there is no better way to spend your time then sweating at 1 am because you need to solve a problem. I'm one such person. Fortunately I don't have a family to look after, so I can dedicate myself to doing exactly what I absolutely love: working. That doesn't mean I don't try to get enough sleep, that I don't exercise daily, and occasionally participate in yoga (not to mention my daily morning meditation practice). But still, to me, this type of lifestyle is fun. We'll see how old age influences my perception, of course.
- baddox 12y ago
  Not everyone has children or intends to have children.
- kghose 12y ago
  Some folks like the pressure - like being always on, are bored by "regular" life. Some folks like the power and the prestige (they are dangerous for those below).
- dilap 12y ago
  Different strokes, different folks. Erdős missed out on all kinds of traditional life to do just math. If you care a lot about, or are really excited about what you're doing, then it's worth it. Or worth it for a while.
Hansi 12y ago
Not included in the transcript is something they mentioned in the podcast is that they feel that the companies management is very much run like a startup with few people in charge sending direct e-mails not only to their direct reports but to anyone within the company. Seems to me that what might solve some of this e-mail craziness would be to realize better that they are a big company and do more delegation, perhaps to different time zones if they need to have a 24 hour work cycle but more realistically just stop this nonsense and hopefully change the culture to be more logical. At my company e-mail is something where you expect acknowledgement within 24-48 hours depending on urgency with answers provided on a best availability schedule. Managers also take on fielding a lot of stuff being directed to their reports because they have aggregate knowledge and let's face it distributing a developer for trivial stuff leads to pointless productivity loss.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  > hopefully change the culture to be more logical. And why exactly would they do that? It seems to be working out pretty well for them. I'm not arguing that the culture is good in any transcending way, but it would be hard to argue that it's not working.
  - Hansi 12y ago
    Yes that's a point I was expecting to be raised after I wrote the above comment as is normal with any Apple post, "Hey there doing great why change anything", but I'd argue that yes things are working out great for them now but it's clearly costing the employees a portion of their personal life and I feel that given how well off the company is it shouldn't be needed. In the podcast these ex Apple employees also mention being glad to be out of Apple because of issues like this, so provided that they move away from this culture they may see better employee retention for mid tier employees rather than having people burn out and leave the company.
ghshephard 12y ago
One of the things Bill Gates commented about Steve Jobs, that he never really understood, is that when people turn around 35-40, they tend to chill out a bit, lose that intensity, and become "Management". For some reason, this didn't seem to happen to Steve, and he kept driving as hard as he did when he was 45 as was when he 25. In comparison, Steve Ballmer, when he was on, was nuts (in the best way) - but, I get the sense he took his foot off the accelerator, particularly during the Vista years, and the Windows Phone response to iPhone years. There is something to be said for "Youthful Intensity" - particularly if you can sustain it your entire working career without having a breakdown.
- gyc 12y ago
  Jobs probably had several big chips on his shoulder that Gates never had, from being forced out of Apple, seeing the Mac lose badly to Windows, and then seeing Apple on the brink of death. Meanwhile, Gates was the richest man in the world and his company absolutely dominated the personal computing space.
  - rgbrenner 12y ago
    Also, it seemed like jobs became more intense once he knew he was going to die.
- greggarious 12y ago
  Does dying at 56 from cancer you tried to treat using pseudoscience until it was inoperable count as "breaking down"?
  - crusso 12y ago
    Hard to say. The guy lived more of an interesting life and had a bigger impact on the world than any of us will ever come remotely close to. Would 80 years of mostly mediocrity beat 56 years with plenty of "best on earth"?
    - endzone 12y ago
bishnu 12y ago
My neighbor when I lived in the Mission worked at Apple. We're engineers of similar seniority and he worked longer hours than I did, worked more weekends than I did, and earned less than I did. To say nothing of the perks (I work at Google). Small sample size, but I was taken aback.
- sw87 12y ago
  He told you how much he earned? You must be big buddies.
  - exelius 12y ago
    No way; it's become common to talk salary with my friends, if for no other reason than to have ammo when going into salary negotiations.
  - mahyarm 12y ago
    I think it's far easier when your at the same career categories in unrelated companies. A lot of problems from sharing salaries get sidestepped, and the usefulness is that much more. Americans should do it more as a cultural practice, so market prices of salaries can be better spread.
  - Mandatum 12y ago
    Always occurred odd to me how in NA it's taboo to ask your salary. In New Zealand you could ask that same question of someone you just met, and they'd tell you most of the time. People who earn ridiculous amount might feel awkward revealing it, however for the most part people have no issue. And if anyone brings it up as "ammo" in a conversation, well you're quickly called a dick and you move on.
q2 12y ago
Is it an essential requirement that in order to design great products or market leading products, management is supposed to work and force others to work during insane hours, especially sunday night? I am not sure how frequently these things happen. May be ok, when you are near major deadline/shipment date but not on every week. Are there no other ways to avoid them like say, internal wiki/intranet ...etc so that mgmt can search answers on their own? Many people followed Steve Jobs authoritative style of leadership after reading various accounts...etc. I hope mgmts of other companies won't shift to these methods concluding falsely that such working hours are essential for great products.
lubesGordi 12y ago
It's like this in silicon valley in general. Now that I have a regular 9-5 that I don't have to take home every weekend, I don't hesitate when I'm called upon to go above and beyond. Also, I work smarter when I'm not stressed. I think most people do.
- johndolan 12y ago
  Just to play devils advocate, depending on what you are doing working smarter might be less productive than working dumber for longer hours.
univalent 12y ago
The only true scarcity in your life is your time. I'm glad I keep ignoring pings from Apple recruiters.
hyperliner 12y ago
If you know NOW that you could be dying tomorrow and not have these regrets of the dying, then more power to you. But I wonder how realistic that is. The 5 Regrets of the dying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-the-dying_n_3640593.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-th... #2: "I wish I hadn't worked so hard" Another longer version: The Top 10 regrets of the dying http://dalepartridge.com/top-10-regrets-dying/ http://dalepartridge.com/top-10-regrets-dying/
- killerdhmo 12y ago
  I think that just depends on who you ask. I agree with /u/tannerc that I find great fulfillment in being challenged every day and working longer hours to solve problems. I find vacation tedious! If I looked back and saw that I hadn't worked as hard as I could have, I would feel nothing but regret and disappointment. I understand this isn't true for everyone, and I'm not saying it should be. But this is way I'm wired, for better or for worse.
  - endzone 12y ago
    look at the transcript. these people are just passing around emails, not "solving problems". i see it as a form of mental illness
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  I'm not sure I would optimize my life for the deathbed version of me any more than I would for the 20 year old version of me. Those guys are crazy.
msie 12y ago
With the screwups in the release of iOS 8 it shows that such work habits do not guarantee successful software deployment.
- msie 12y ago
  Another iOS 8 screwup: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2689349/cloud-computing/ios-8-bug-deletes-iwork-docs.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2689349/cloud-computing/ios... Don't get me wrong, Apple fan here. Just not a fan of bad work environments.
frandroid 12y ago
> Melton: And that’s what I tried to explain to people. It’s very subtle. It’s not required of you, but let’s be honest, it’s expected. Well, it's required then.
calewis 12y ago
Maybe if they stopped working stupid hours they would stop releasing buggy software. Time and time again there is good academic evidence that these working hours do not make productive and creative employees, quite the opposite in fact.
- endzone 12y ago
  yes. you're not doing work of any real substance if you're habitually pinging emails around into the early hours of SUNDAY morning
incision 12y ago
>'Melton: Yeah. And it was sometimes a roll of the dice. Like, you get the email from your boss, like from Scott, and you would not be quite sure about [the answer], and then you would reply or forward, include Scott so he gets a reply, and you would send it to one of your people. And the death was if that person didn’t reply until the morning. Then that person has a black eye and you’ve just given them, made them look bad in front of your boss.' As stated, that's very typical but no less appalling non-management. Cover yourself with a speedy reply while deflecting onto a sacrificial subordinate in one move. It only takes a few minutes to ping your reports and determine which of then can/will reply before CC'ing one of them a grenade.
- staticfish 12y ago
  Agreed. That's a complete dick-move.
kleptco 12y ago
No wonder their stuff is so messed up, it's all fear all the time.
jonsterling 12y ago
Boy, I must be really stupid, since I subjected myself to this nonsense not in a glorious company like Apple, but in a go-nowhere fail-everytime startup...
durbin 12y ago
I appreciate people that follow the Charles Bukowski mantra of life and "Find what you love and let it kill you." However, the most depressing part of this article was in the last paragraph where Melton says, "And so you have to ask yourself, is that really the way you wanna live your life? ’Cause it’s not like I recommend it, either."
igonvalue 12y ago
And is this an efficient or effective way to run a company? > I know I’ve read a lot of studies how this is a stupid way for the tech industry to function. And that’s certainly true.
dreamweapon 12y ago
When someone came into my office and said they wanna be a manager, I asked them, “How did you sleep last night?” And they said, “Oh, fairly well”. and I said, “Good, ’cause that’s the last good night’s sleep you’re gonna get.” Having your underlings work to the point of sleep deprivation and estrangement from their families so that you can get the acclaim, the adrenaline rush, and outsize stock market payouts isn't "brilliant", or "intense." And it certainly isn't necessary to create good products. It's just egomaniacal bullshit, period.
senderista 12y ago
Sounds like par for the course at another company beginning with "A"...

154 points by libovness 12y ago

It's nice when people write up podcasts. There's so much content locked up in them that is only appreciated by 1% of the audience compared to when the same people write blog posts.

elo 12y ago
Author of the blog post here. I had this idea to start a site for crowdsourced podcast transcripts (or indeed any audio content) but never did it. I’d still love to see such a site because I agree that there is so much valuable content. But transcription is just a huge amount of work and I’m not sure how well you could automate it with the help of software.
- wf 12y ago
  Seems like it's time for podcast.genius.com, which would be amazing.
- laacz 12y ago
  That idea crossed my mind even seeing how many companies failed even during boom times. Service could be powered by some speech recognition software (maybe more than one) which initially would give insane percentage of incorrectly recognized text. Community could fix those errors (weak link in my plan:)). Afterwards you feed data back to software and train it so next time it would work better. Training would require marking which person talks when in episode to tune algorithms for each of them. Maybe group them by regional dialects. Oh, another tiny small thingie - not clear how to monetize that.
  - elo 12y ago
    Agreed about monetization. Ideally, this should be a community thing like Wikipedia but that’s probably unrealistic. I really think it would be an amazing resource. There would be so much great content that the site would potentially rank really high on Google for a variety of search terms, too (again, like Wikipedia).
  - jkaunisv1 12y ago
    Monetization: you could sell the service to professional podcasters as it would increase content on their site, and possibly serve as another place to put ads for their sponsors. If you focused on a core set of popular podcasts you could package it as a monthly ebook or similar product. While overall people don't like paying for content like that I think it's possible to find a niche market that would.
- jkaunisv1 12y ago
  I don't, but people seem to actually use stuff like Siri, which tells me some amount of automated audio processing is currently feasible.
  - smackfu 12y ago
    I just tried it, and voice dictation on the iPhone does a surprisingly good job with a well produced podcast. It's missing all punctuation of course, and tends to make a lot of mistakes on small words like prepositions. But for a first pass to edit from, it is surprisingly good.
- smackfu 12y ago
  I honestly think the blog approach where you highlight sections is the best way to do it. General transcripts are indeed almost impossible to do, especially when there are weekly shows that run for over two hours each episode.
- nighthawk454 12y ago
  Google has some pretty good software for this, thought it might be internal. When they have their "Talks at Google" events, there's a screen off to the side that provides real-time translated subtitles. There's at least one talk where the speaker addresses this system, and tries to get it to transcribe funny stuff. Can't remember which one exactly, but it might be this one with Randall Munroe (xkcd). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24&list=UUbmNph6atAoGfqLoCL_duAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24&list=UUbmNph6atA...
- x0x0 12y ago
  Transcription is already down to $1/minute. If $60 for an hour-long podcast isn't worth it to the authors, I'm not sure there's much value there. https://castingwords.com/ https://castingwords.com/

normloman 12y ago

Why would anyone subject themselves to this torture? It's not worth it. You're making money that you can't enjoy. You're missing out on your kids childhood to design a smartphone.

odonnellryan 12y ago
It's fun. Instead of spending 40-50 hours a week doing something you might or might not enjoy, you're on the cutting edge, and you're doing something you definitely enjoy. Doesn't make it worth it, but that's part of it?
- tannerc 12y ago
  I think you've outlined something really important here in terms of value and individualism. Some people get value from spending time in the great outdoors, others by growing and caring for a family, for a large number of people (I imagine) in Silicon Valley there is no better way to spend your time then sweating at 1 am because you need to solve a problem. I'm one such person. Fortunately I don't have a family to look after, so I can dedicate myself to doing exactly what I absolutely love: working. That doesn't mean I don't try to get enough sleep, that I don't exercise daily, and occasionally participate in yoga (not to mention my daily morning meditation practice). But still, to me, this type of lifestyle is fun. We'll see how old age influences my perception, of course.
baddox 12y ago
Not everyone has children or intends to have children.
kghose 12y ago
Some folks like the pressure - like being always on, are bored by "regular" life. Some folks like the power and the prestige (they are dangerous for those below).
dilap 12y ago
Different strokes, different folks. Erdős missed out on all kinds of traditional life to do just math. If you care a lot about, or are really excited about what you're doing, then it's worth it. Or worth it for a while.

Hansi 12y ago

Not included in the transcript is something they mentioned in the podcast is that they feel that the companies management is very much run like a startup with few people in charge sending direct e-mails not only to their direct reports but to anyone within the company. Seems to me that what might solve some of this e-mail craziness would be to realize better that they are a big company and do more delegation, perhaps to different time zones if they need to have a 24 hour work cycle but more realistically just stop this nonsense and hopefully change the culture to be more logical. At my company e-mail is something where you expect acknowledgement within 24-48 hours depending on urgency with answers provided on a best availability schedule. Managers also take on fielding a lot of stuff being directed to their reports because they have aggregate knowledge and let's face it distributing a developer for trivial stuff leads to pointless productivity loss.

robotresearcher 12y ago
> hopefully change the culture to be more logical. And why exactly would they do that? It seems to be working out pretty well for them. I'm not arguing that the culture is good in any transcending way, but it would be hard to argue that it's not working.
- Hansi 12y ago
  Yes that's a point I was expecting to be raised after I wrote the above comment as is normal with any Apple post, "Hey there doing great why change anything", but I'd argue that yes things are working out great for them now but it's clearly costing the employees a portion of their personal life and I feel that given how well off the company is it shouldn't be needed. In the podcast these ex Apple employees also mention being glad to be out of Apple because of issues like this, so provided that they move away from this culture they may see better employee retention for mid tier employees rather than having people burn out and leave the company.

ghshephard 12y ago

One of the things Bill Gates commented about Steve Jobs, that he never really understood, is that when people turn around 35-40, they tend to chill out a bit, lose that intensity, and become "Management". For some reason, this didn't seem to happen to Steve, and he kept driving as hard as he did when he was 45 as was when he 25. In comparison, Steve Ballmer, when he was on, was nuts (in the best way) - but, I get the sense he took his foot off the accelerator, particularly during the Vista years, and the Windows Phone response to iPhone years. There is something to be said for "Youthful Intensity" - particularly if you can sustain it your entire working career without having a breakdown.

gyc 12y ago
Jobs probably had several big chips on his shoulder that Gates never had, from being forced out of Apple, seeing the Mac lose badly to Windows, and then seeing Apple on the brink of death. Meanwhile, Gates was the richest man in the world and his company absolutely dominated the personal computing space.
- rgbrenner 12y ago
  Also, it seemed like jobs became more intense once he knew he was going to die.
greggarious 12y ago
Does dying at 56 from cancer you tried to treat using pseudoscience until it was inoperable count as "breaking down"?
- crusso 12y ago
  Hard to say. The guy lived more of an interesting life and had a bigger impact on the world than any of us will ever come remotely close to. Would 80 years of mostly mediocrity beat 56 years with plenty of "best on earth"?
  - endzone 12y ago

bishnu 12y ago

My neighbor when I lived in the Mission worked at Apple. We're engineers of similar seniority and he worked longer hours than I did, worked more weekends than I did, and earned less than I did. To say nothing of the perks (I work at Google). Small sample size, but I was taken aback.

sw87 12y ago
He told you how much he earned? You must be big buddies.
- exelius 12y ago
  No way; it's become common to talk salary with my friends, if for no other reason than to have ammo when going into salary negotiations.
- mahyarm 12y ago
  I think it's far easier when your at the same career categories in unrelated companies. A lot of problems from sharing salaries get sidestepped, and the usefulness is that much more. Americans should do it more as a cultural practice, so market prices of salaries can be better spread.
- Mandatum 12y ago
  Always occurred odd to me how in NA it's taboo to ask your salary. In New Zealand you could ask that same question of someone you just met, and they'd tell you most of the time. People who earn ridiculous amount might feel awkward revealing it, however for the most part people have no issue. And if anyone brings it up as "ammo" in a conversation, well you're quickly called a dick and you move on.

q2 12y ago

Is it an essential requirement that in order to design great products or market leading products, management is supposed to work and force others to work during insane hours, especially sunday night? I am not sure how frequently these things happen. May be ok, when you are near major deadline/shipment date but not on every week. Are there no other ways to avoid them like say, internal wiki/intranet ...etc so that mgmt can search answers on their own? Many people followed Steve Jobs authoritative style of leadership after reading various accounts...etc. I hope mgmts of other companies won't shift to these methods concluding falsely that such working hours are essential for great products.

lubesGordi 12y ago

It's like this in silicon valley in general. Now that I have a regular 9-5 that I don't have to take home every weekend, I don't hesitate when I'm called upon to go above and beyond. Also, I work smarter when I'm not stressed. I think most people do.

johndolan 12y ago
Just to play devils advocate, depending on what you are doing working smarter might be less productive than working dumber for longer hours.

univalent 12y ago

The only true scarcity in your life is your time. I'm glad I keep ignoring pings from Apple recruiters.

hyperliner 12y ago

If you know NOW that you could be dying tomorrow and not have these regrets of the dying, then more power to you. But I wonder how realistic that is. The 5 Regrets of the dying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-the-dying_n_3640593.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-th... #2: "I wish I hadn't worked so hard" Another longer version: The Top 10 regrets of the dying http://dalepartridge.com/top-10-regrets-dying/ http://dalepartridge.com/top-10-regrets-dying/

killerdhmo 12y ago
I think that just depends on who you ask. I agree with /u/tannerc that I find great fulfillment in being challenged every day and working longer hours to solve problems. I find vacation tedious! If I looked back and saw that I hadn't worked as hard as I could have, I would feel nothing but regret and disappointment. I understand this isn't true for everyone, and I'm not saying it should be. But this is way I'm wired, for better or for worse.
- endzone 12y ago
  look at the transcript. these people are just passing around emails, not "solving problems". i see it as a form of mental illness
robotresearcher 12y ago
I'm not sure I would optimize my life for the deathbed version of me any more than I would for the 20 year old version of me. Those guys are crazy.

msie 12y ago

With the screwups in the release of iOS 8 it shows that such work habits do not guarantee successful software deployment.

msie 12y ago
Another iOS 8 screwup: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2689349/cloud-computing/ios-8-bug-deletes-iwork-docs.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2689349/cloud-computing/ios... Don't get me wrong, Apple fan here. Just not a fan of bad work environments.

frandroid 12y ago

> Melton: And that’s what I tried to explain to people. It’s very subtle. It’s not required of you, but let’s be honest, it’s expected. Well, it's required then.

calewis 12y ago

Maybe if they stopped working stupid hours they would stop releasing buggy software. Time and time again there is good academic evidence that these working hours do not make productive and creative employees, quite the opposite in fact.

endzone 12y ago
yes. you're not doing work of any real substance if you're habitually pinging emails around into the early hours of SUNDAY morning

incision 12y ago

>'Melton: Yeah. And it was sometimes a roll of the dice. Like, you get the email from your boss, like from Scott, and you would not be quite sure about [the answer], and then you would reply or forward, include Scott so he gets a reply, and you would send it to one of your people. And the death was if that person didn’t reply until the morning. Then that person has a black eye and you’ve just given them, made them look bad in front of your boss.' As stated, that's very typical but no less appalling non-management. Cover yourself with a speedy reply while deflecting onto a sacrificial subordinate in one move. It only takes a few minutes to ping your reports and determine which of then can/will reply before CC'ing one of them a grenade.

staticfish 12y ago
Agreed. That's a complete dick-move.

kleptco 12y ago

No wonder their stuff is so messed up, it's all fear all the time.

jonsterling 12y ago

Boy, I must be really stupid, since I subjected myself to this nonsense not in a glorious company like Apple, but in a go-nowhere fail-everytime startup...

durbin 12y ago

I appreciate people that follow the Charles Bukowski mantra of life and "Find what you love and let it kill you." However, the most depressing part of this article was in the last paragraph where Melton says, "And so you have to ask yourself, is that really the way you wanna live your life? ’Cause it’s not like I recommend it, either."

igonvalue 12y ago

And is this an efficient or effective way to run a company? > I know I’ve read a lot of studies how this is a stupid way for the tech industry to function. And that’s certainly true.

dreamweapon 12y ago

When someone came into my office and said they wanna be a manager, I asked them, “How did you sleep last night?” And they said, “Oh, fairly well”. and I said, “Good, ’cause that’s the last good night’s sleep you’re gonna get.” Having your underlings work to the point of sleep deprivation and estrangement from their families so that you can get the acclaim, the adrenaline rush, and outsize stock market payouts isn't "brilliant", or "intense." And it certainly isn't necessary to create good products. It's just egomaniacal bullshit, period.

senderista 12y ago

Sounds like par for the course at another company beginning with "A"...