4 ms·

>As an alternative to possibly engendering environmental apathy, imagine a scenario akin to the Cold War, except that one of the superpowers has a million citiz

by scj 12y ago

>As an alternative to possibly engendering environmental apathy, imagine a scenario akin to the Cold War, except that one of the superpowers has a million citizens on Mars, and the other doesn't. Does MAD still apply, or does the interplanetary superpower suddenly becoming all the more willing to watch the world burn? Or do you just get a third superpower less invested in the fate of home planet?

freehunter 12y ago
I have no doubt that given enough time and enough people born on Mars, the population of Mars will become more and more uninterested in the politics of Earth. We've seen it happen so often in colonization around the planet, there's no doubt that if a Mars colony is successful that we will see the same thing. No one born on Mars is going to have any reason to care about what happens on Earth any more than the people of one continent care about the day-to-day life of people on another continent.
- celticninja 12y ago
  however the people on mars would have been supported significantly more by people from earth, both in getting to Mars and maintaining a colony before it became self sufficient. So it would take a generation or two after full sustainability for this sort of mindset to come into play in the younger generations, perhaps 4th and 5th generation martians.
- kibwen 12y ago
  I think it's true that Martians will feel a great cultural separation from Earthlings (note to self: think of a better demonym), but I don't think it's true that colonies have historically become disinterested in the politics of their founding countries (be sure to consider only colonies that establish new populations shipped in from a host country rather than subjugating natives, since AFAIK Mars has no natives to subjugate). > No one born on Mars is going to have any reason to care > about what happens on Earth any more than the people of > one continent care about the day-to-day life of people on > another continent. But humans on Earth care about what happens on other continents incessantly. Today in the news: attacks on ISIS, Hong Kong protests, and the ebola outbreak. I care about all of these things, and as a taxpayer my money is influencing all of these things, though I cannot say that I was born in Iraq, China, or Senegal.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    You follow big news events happening elsewhere, but that is far different from caring about the day-to-day life of people. Mars would have a CNN equivalent to broadcast what is happening on Earth as well. But how much of the international news focuses on the impact back home? We're worried about ISIS because we might have to send troops to fight or risk them somehow endangering us directly (attacks in other countries, long range missiles, etc). We're worried about the ebola outbreak because there is potential to spread to our own nation. We're interested in the Hong Kong protests because of the impact that China has on the international economy. Watch CNN or Fox or Sky or whatever and listen to how often they will say "And what is the impact to [insert your country]?" or "How long until we're facing this threat in [country]?" What on Earth (literally) could threaten the Martians once they've become self-sustaining? The only time they would care about what happens on Earth from anything more than a pure curiosity standpoint is when they are dependent on Earth for survival. After that point, until we develop ships fast enough that we can get to Mars as fast as we can get across the Atlantic and trade once again becomes an issue, who cares what happens to Earth? Mars is just fine.
notahacker 12y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the existence of distant relatives in Oceania (rather a lot of them if you include the fellow English-speaking capitalists in Australia and New Zealand) was ever seriously advanced as an argument in favour of MUAD wouldn't necessarily be a bad end to the Cold War from a US point of view.

by scj 12y ago

freehunter 12y ago

I have no doubt that given enough time and enough people born on Mars, the population of Mars will become more and more uninterested in the politics of Earth. We've seen it happen so often in colonization around the planet, there's no doubt that if a Mars colony is successful that we will see the same thing. No one born on Mars is going to have any reason to care about what happens on Earth any more than the people of one continent care about the day-to-day life of people on another continent.

celticninja 12y ago
however the people on mars would have been supported significantly more by people from earth, both in getting to Mars and maintaining a colony before it became self sufficient. So it would take a generation or two after full sustainability for this sort of mindset to come into play in the younger generations, perhaps 4th and 5th generation martians.
kibwen 12y ago
I think it's true that Martians will feel a great cultural separation from Earthlings (note to self: think of a better demonym), but I don't think it's true that colonies have historically become disinterested in the politics of their founding countries (be sure to consider only colonies that establish new populations shipped in from a host country rather than subjugating natives, since AFAIK Mars has no natives to subjugate). > No one born on Mars is going to have any reason to care > about what happens on Earth any more than the people of > one continent care about the day-to-day life of people on > another continent. But humans on Earth care about what happens on other continents incessantly. Today in the news: attacks on ISIS, Hong Kong protests, and the ebola outbreak. I care about all of these things, and as a taxpayer my money is influencing all of these things, though I cannot say that I was born in Iraq, China, or Senegal.
- freehunter 12y ago
  You follow big news events happening elsewhere, but that is far different from caring about the day-to-day life of people. Mars would have a CNN equivalent to broadcast what is happening on Earth as well. But how much of the international news focuses on the impact back home? We're worried about ISIS because we might have to send troops to fight or risk them somehow endangering us directly (attacks in other countries, long range missiles, etc). We're worried about the ebola outbreak because there is potential to spread to our own nation. We're interested in the Hong Kong protests because of the impact that China has on the international economy. Watch CNN or Fox or Sky or whatever and listen to how often they will say "And what is the impact to [insert your country]?" or "How long until we're facing this threat in [country]?" What on Earth (literally) could threaten the Martians once they've become self-sustaining? The only time they would care about what happens on Earth from anything more than a pure curiosity standpoint is when they are dependent on Earth for survival. After that point, until we develop ships fast enough that we can get to Mars as fast as we can get across the Atlantic and trade once again becomes an issue, who cares what happens to Earth? Mars is just fine.

notahacker 12y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the existence of distant relatives in Oceania (rather a lot of them if you include the fellow English-speaking capitalists in Australia and New Zealand) was ever seriously advanced as an argument in favour of MUAD wouldn't necessarily be a bad end to the Cold War from a US point of view.