5 ms·

If you quit, I'll still take you more seriously

31 points by jmtame 17y ago

anigbrowl 17y ago
I think what you meant was 'if you quit, I'll take you still more seriously'. The way it's written, you suggest you were planning to take me more seriously anyway, and you'll still do if I quit :)
- jmtame 17y ago
  i think 37signals was implying that you no longer deserve to be applauded for quitting, because that's not difficult, according to them. i'm saying that i still find it to be the opposite: it's a big step, and it shows that you're determined to accomplish what you're going after.
robryan 17y ago
It depends on how you approach things, I would rate someone that works 14hours a day/ 7 days a week in the same regard as a full time job and working 6hours every night. Devoting all you free time to something, be it with a full time job or not, would get you taken equally as seriously. On the other hand if someone quits their job and settles down into a 6 hour a day routine they may not get taken as seriously.
- jmtame 17y ago
  after thinking about it a bit more, and from my experience in yc this summer, i cannot imagine how anyone could do a start up successfully part time. there may be a few examples, but i don't know of many. i did it in school with my cofounder, and i could feel the gpa's drop. surely your employer will notice you slacking if you're trying to work too hard on a start up. even the ones who do it full time seem to struggle. if i had to guess, it probably feels a bit like raising money and programming at the same time. maybe less painful because you can program for about 14 hours out of your day. but i really am a skeptic, and i'd say that having the laser focus is one of the best things in a start up. our competition moves pretty fast, we would probably not be standing where we are now if we did this as a side project.
  - warp 17y ago
    I don't think spending your evenings on a startup is necessarily bad for your employer. Someone spending considerable amounts coding on his/her startup in the evening still brings the knowledge and experience of doing that back to the full-time job. At home you're working on projects you care about, you invest time in learning about new technologies, you research best practices, etc.. That actually adds value for your employer compared to those employees who go home to the wife and kids and don't spend any of their free time thinking about code. Ofcourse, you shouldn't overdo it and arrive at work a zombie, but that would also have a negative effect on your startup work, so I don't expect people to actually do that.
  - run4yourlives 17y ago
    i cannot imagine how anyone could do a start up successfully part time. The same way you raise a family with a job, or have a hobby with a job, or even watch TV with a job. It's difficult, but not impossible. It requires a lot of dedication and commitment, and more hard work than you can imagine. It also takes longer to complete. our competition moves pretty fast, we would probably not be standing where we are now if we did this as a side project. This is perhaps the biggest concern. But it's less of a concern if you've identified a pain point in a market and are working towards solving it; especially in a b2b market. The consumer facing "fad" development (not trying to be derogatory) moves much faster and carries less of an attention span, so I wouldn't recommend part-time work if this is where your product is targeted. That being said, I'm with 37Signals' approach of building a business, not an acquisition target, so in general the whole process is slower.
jrwoodruff 17y ago
I would just like to note that quitting wasn't the first thing Patzer did here.He worked the two jobs. When he realized Mint was something viable, something he not just wanted to pursue but had to give 100% to, then he quit the day job. I read the 37signals article to mean just this. Had he gotten to this point and realized Mint was an utter disaster, the idea wasn't viable, the technology wasn't there or the team wasn't working out, he had a backup. Quitting your job isn't the first thing you should do when considering a startup. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's how I took it, and it just seems to be practical advice.
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  Exactly. The example actually supports 37Signals' stance rather than counter it. I'm pretty sure even they would agree that it's foolish to continue working at your job when you've got a lower risk way to move on to your start-up. The point they're making though is that until you reach that stage, don't though caution to the wind if you don't have to.
- jmtame 17y ago
  he does mention that his experience working wasn't positive and didn't feel like it helped him in any way. If anything it seems to have made him angry enough to want to start Mint, but not much beyond that.
thunk 17y ago
No, no, no. It's: "If you quit, I'll take you more seriously than you could possibly imagine."
Psyonic 17y ago
Also notice he had enough savings to live on for 7 months. This is important, as he had enough time to avoid rushing for immediate profitability.
Confusion 17y ago
It's offtopic, but I really dislike it when people don't start their sentences with a capital. It makes the text harder to read: a period isn't enough to easily distinguish ends and starts of sentences. I also, I immediately associate you with other people that write in this way (or worse) and believe me: that is not a good thing.

31 points by jmtame 17y ago

I think what you meant was 'if you quit, I'll take you still more seriously'. The way it's written, you suggest you were planning to take me more seriously anyway, and you'll still do if I quit :)

jmtame 17y ago
i think 37signals was implying that you no longer deserve to be applauded for quitting, because that's not difficult, according to them. i'm saying that i still find it to be the opposite: it's a big step, and it shows that you're determined to accomplish what you're going after.

robryan 17y ago

It depends on how you approach things, I would rate someone that works 14hours a day/ 7 days a week in the same regard as a full time job and working 6hours every night. Devoting all you free time to something, be it with a full time job or not, would get you taken equally as seriously. On the other hand if someone quits their job and settles down into a 6 hour a day routine they may not get taken as seriously.

jmtame 17y ago
after thinking about it a bit more, and from my experience in yc this summer, i cannot imagine how anyone could do a start up successfully part time. there may be a few examples, but i don't know of many. i did it in school with my cofounder, and i could feel the gpa's drop. surely your employer will notice you slacking if you're trying to work too hard on a start up. even the ones who do it full time seem to struggle. if i had to guess, it probably feels a bit like raising money and programming at the same time. maybe less painful because you can program for about 14 hours out of your day. but i really am a skeptic, and i'd say that having the laser focus is one of the best things in a start up. our competition moves pretty fast, we would probably not be standing where we are now if we did this as a side project.
- warp 17y ago
  I don't think spending your evenings on a startup is necessarily bad for your employer. Someone spending considerable amounts coding on his/her startup in the evening still brings the knowledge and experience of doing that back to the full-time job. At home you're working on projects you care about, you invest time in learning about new technologies, you research best practices, etc.. That actually adds value for your employer compared to those employees who go home to the wife and kids and don't spend any of their free time thinking about code. Ofcourse, you shouldn't overdo it and arrive at work a zombie, but that would also have a negative effect on your startup work, so I don't expect people to actually do that.
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  i cannot imagine how anyone could do a start up successfully part time. The same way you raise a family with a job, or have a hobby with a job, or even watch TV with a job. It's difficult, but not impossible. It requires a lot of dedication and commitment, and more hard work than you can imagine. It also takes longer to complete. our competition moves pretty fast, we would probably not be standing where we are now if we did this as a side project. This is perhaps the biggest concern. But it's less of a concern if you've identified a pain point in a market and are working towards solving it; especially in a b2b market. The consumer facing "fad" development (not trying to be derogatory) moves much faster and carries less of an attention span, so I wouldn't recommend part-time work if this is where your product is targeted. That being said, I'm with 37Signals' approach of building a business, not an acquisition target, so in general the whole process is slower.

jrwoodruff 17y ago

I would just like to note that quitting wasn't the first thing Patzer did here.He worked the two jobs. When he realized Mint was something viable, something he not just wanted to pursue but had to give 100% to, then he quit the day job. I read the 37signals article to mean just this. Had he gotten to this point and realized Mint was an utter disaster, the idea wasn't viable, the technology wasn't there or the team wasn't working out, he had a backup. Quitting your job isn't the first thing you should do when considering a startup. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's how I took it, and it just seems to be practical advice.

run4yourlives 17y ago
Exactly. The example actually supports 37Signals' stance rather than counter it. I'm pretty sure even they would agree that it's foolish to continue working at your job when you've got a lower risk way to move on to your start-up. The point they're making though is that until you reach that stage, don't though caution to the wind if you don't have to.
jmtame 17y ago
he does mention that his experience working wasn't positive and didn't feel like it helped him in any way. If anything it seems to have made him angry enough to want to start Mint, but not much beyond that.

thunk 17y ago

No, no, no. It's: "If you quit, I'll take you more seriously than you could possibly imagine."

Psyonic 17y ago

Also notice he had enough savings to live on for 7 months. This is important, as he had enough time to avoid rushing for immediate profitability.

Confusion 17y ago

It's offtopic, but I really dislike it when people don't start their sentences with a capital. It makes the text harder to read: a period isn't enough to easily distinguish ends and starts of sentences. I also, I immediately associate you with other people that write in this way (or worse) and believe me: that is not a good thing.