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There is a very good reason why utilities have a problem with solar and wind. The reason is that they are expected to run the grid reliably and solar and wind

There is a very good reason why utilities have a problem with solar and wind. The reason is that they are expected to run the grid reliably and solar and wind are in no way contributing to that end. Solar and wind are causing major issues in distribution networks, because when you have massive unscheduled energy spikes from wind and sun, that energy has to go somewhere. I am disappointed by the article, which is trying to portray the utilities as villains, which they may be - but in this case it is a legitimate concern. I am also disappointed by the comments in this thread. I would expect "hackers" to be better educated about electricity and power generation.

pavlov 12y ago
... when you have massive unscheduled energy spikes from wind and sun, that energy has to go somewhere. Spin up GPU-equipped data center instances to mine FooCoins, or warm up glass houses to grow tulips, or whatever is the trendy way to burn energy this year. There's always something that can be done with extra spot energy that is perceived as valuable, but traditional industries and utilities probably aren't going to come up with it because they're wired for projects that take 15 years to build and last 40 years in use.
alphydan 12y ago
> Solar and wind are causing major issues in distribution networks It's a lot less dramatic than you paint it to be. In Spain, 23% of generation comes from wind and solar and they manage just fine. Of course you need to spend money on technology (coordination, forecasting of weather, real-time communication between power plants and a control room [0], etc). So 0.4% of solar is pretty trivial to handle. Of course it hits the profits, and Iberdrola fought hard to get a "grid-tax", because their profit had gone down by 0.9% to only 4bn (EBIDTA) [1] But since you seem educated about electricity and power generation, maybe you can tell us what the grid costs are. Take $0.10/kWh in Texas for example. What percentage is fuel, CAPEX, distribution and profit? That information would make the debate more meaningful. "But think of the grid!" is not specific enough. [0] http://black-capital.com/news/2010/09/cecre-a-control-center-that-is-unique-in-the-world/?lang=es http://black-capital.com/news/2010/09/cecre-a-control-center... [1] http://www.iberdrola.es/press-room/press-releases/national-international/2013/detail/press-release/130724_NP_01_PresentacionResultados1S13.html http://www.iberdrola.es/press-room/press-releases/national-i...

pavlov 12y ago

... when you have massive unscheduled energy spikes from wind and sun, that energy has to go somewhere. Spin up GPU-equipped data center instances to mine FooCoins, or warm up glass houses to grow tulips, or whatever is the trendy way to burn energy this year. There's always something that can be done with extra spot energy that is perceived as valuable, but traditional industries and utilities probably aren't going to come up with it because they're wired for projects that take 15 years to build and last 40 years in use.

alphydan 12y ago

> Solar and wind are causing major issues in distribution networks It's a lot less dramatic than you paint it to be. In Spain, 23% of generation comes from wind and solar and they manage just fine. Of course you need to spend money on technology (coordination, forecasting of weather, real-time communication between power plants and a control room [0], etc). So 0.4% of solar is pretty trivial to handle. Of course it hits the profits, and Iberdrola fought hard to get a "grid-tax", because their profit had gone down by 0.9% to only 4bn (EBIDTA) [1] But since you seem educated about electricity and power generation, maybe you can tell us what the grid costs are. Take $0.10/kWh in Texas for example. What percentage is fuel, CAPEX, distribution and profit? That information would make the debate more meaningful. "But think of the grid!" is not specific enough. [0] http://black-capital.com/news/2010/09/cecre-a-control-center-that-is-unique-in-the-world/?lang=es http://black-capital.com/news/2010/09/cecre-a-control-center... [1] http://www.iberdrola.es/press-room/press-releases/national-international/2013/detail/press-release/130724_NP_01_PresentacionResultados1S13.html http://www.iberdrola.es/press-room/press-releases/national-i...