4 ms·

If they wanted to test they should have mined on testnet.

by ollybee 12y ago

whyenot 12y ago
Why? Using "real" net a manufacturer can test their equipment and make some money at the same time. That on it's own doesn't seem unethical or shady to me. The potentially shady part is using the machines for straight mining before shipping them to customers.
- yebyen 12y ago
  You don't see anything unethical about competing with your own customers when you promised them that you wouldn't? Cause that's exactly what happened.
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    Honest question here: did they promise that they wouldn't?
    - yebyen 12y ago
      I am having a hard time finding this declaration now, but I am sure that some BFL employees representing the company made these declarations on the company forums. "I'm sure I saw it" -- maybe naïvely inferred from discussions I read that they were actually saying it. I went back through the web.archive.org pages on butterflylabs.com/faq and I can find no such statements, refutations, or denials now.
    - yebyen 12y ago
      The closest I've found so far is this person[1] Transisto asserting that they specifically said this. I remember hearing it and I have no reason to doubt Transisto; he is clearly a person you can trust (and at least in this forum thread, nobody came and said he was wrong.) [1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.msg1202262#msg1202262 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.msg1202262#ms...
      - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
        Ok, good to know, thanks!
        yebyen 12y ago
        Here is at least one statement to this effect, directly from the main BFL employee who represents them in the forums, BFL_Josh: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/t-52.html https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/t-52.html It is linked in the pre-sales FAQ in the archive, post is only two years old (number 13): https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/f-4.html https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/f-4.html This is not the promise I remember, there was a much stronger statement issued at some point that I remember where they stated that they would _never_ be in the mining business for themselves, but I can't find it. Still, this is pretty clear, he says 24 hours and testnet. Not two weeks and "into our pockets."
joshstrange 12y ago
I don't know why you are being down-voted. I think we can agree the issue isn't that they were mining BTC with customer devices but rather that they swore they weren't. Had they not released statements saying they would not be getting into the mining business and that they tested the devices on the test net then there wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Yes people would still be mad they tested them for 2 days when 15min would have been enough (especially when they were so late in shipping), but the big issue is they lied to everyone who bought one of these devices.
GigabyteCoin 12y ago
A better solution imho would have been to ask for the customer's Bitcoin address and do their testing with the client reaping the rewards of mining early. The biggest mistake BFL made was basically ensuring that everybody lost money. They were too greedy. If they had even made their customers 5% ROI I doubt they would be in the situation currently.

If they wanted to test they should have mined on testnet.

by ollybee 12y ago

If they wanted to test they should have mined on testnet.

Why? Using "real" net a manufacturer can test their equipment and make some money at the same time. That on it's own doesn't seem unethical or shady to me. The potentially shady part is using the machines for straight mining before shipping them to customers.

yebyen 12y ago
You don't see anything unethical about competing with your own customers when you promised them that you wouldn't? Cause that's exactly what happened.
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  Honest question here: did they promise that they wouldn't?
  - yebyen 12y ago
    I am having a hard time finding this declaration now, but I am sure that some BFL employees representing the company made these declarations on the company forums. "I'm sure I saw it" -- maybe naïvely inferred from discussions I read that they were actually saying it. I went back through the web.archive.org pages on butterflylabs.com/faq and I can find no such statements, refutations, or denials now.
  - yebyen 12y ago
    The closest I've found so far is this person[1] Transisto asserting that they specifically said this. I remember hearing it and I have no reason to doubt Transisto; he is clearly a person you can trust (and at least in this forum thread, nobody came and said he was wrong.) [1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.msg1202262#msg1202262 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.msg1202262#ms...
    - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
      Ok, good to know, thanks!
      - yebyen 12y ago
        Here is at least one statement to this effect, directly from the main BFL employee who represents them in the forums, BFL_Josh: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/t-52.html https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/t-52.html It is linked in the pre-sales FAQ in the archive, post is only two years old (number 13): https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/f-4.html https://forums.butterflylabs.com/archive/index.php/f-4.html This is not the promise I remember, there was a much stronger statement issued at some point that I remember where they stated that they would _never_ be in the mining business for themselves, but I can't find it. Still, this is pretty clear, he says 24 hours and testnet. Not two weeks and "into our pockets."

joshstrange 12y ago

I don't know why you are being down-voted. I think we can agree the issue isn't that they were mining BTC with customer devices but rather that they swore they weren't. Had they not released statements saying they would not be getting into the mining business and that they tested the devices on the test net then there wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Yes people would still be mad they tested them for 2 days when 15min would have been enough (especially when they were so late in shipping), but the big issue is they lied to everyone who bought one of these devices.

GigabyteCoin 12y ago

A better solution imho would have been to ask for the customer's Bitcoin address and do their testing with the client reaping the rewards of mining early. The biggest mistake BFL made was basically ensuring that everybody lost money. They were too greedy. If they had even made their customers 5% ROI I doubt they would be in the situation currently.