11 ms·

Silverlight Web OS Lets You Develop Apps Online And Share Them With a Click

21 points by happyjoe 17y ago

byoung2 17y ago
This is really cool...the best use of Silverlight I've seen so far. Now Microsoft just needs to cook a clever implementation of Silverlight into the next version of Windows Mobile to have a truly powerful mobile platform.
- jrockway 17y ago
  "next version of Windows Mobile" Is there even a plan for this? It seems like Microsoft clearly lost this one and doesn't even care anymore.
  - listic 17y ago
    Really? Who won then? Last times I checked, Windows Mobile is the prevalent operating system on phones.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      Which is several years behind Android and iPhone OS in terms of features, with no new release announced.
      - listic 17y ago
        But this doesn't imply that Windows "lost", does it?
      - jawngee 17y ago
        What's it like being wrong so frequently, as you seem to be on HN: http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+mobile+7&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+mobile+7&ie=UTF-8...
        jrockway 17y ago
        Let me guess, it includes WinFS too!
    - alain94040 17y ago
      Windows Mobile is the prevalent operating system on phones If you work for Microsoft, you may find comfort in that fact, but for everyone else out there, I wouldn't bet on Windows Mobile dominance based on what's happening with the iPhone (followed long-term by Android). Kind of like GM selling SUVs until last year...
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - byoung2 17y ago
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/sep09/09-01WindowsPhoneAvailablePR.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/sep09/09-01Win... Windows Mobile 6.5 is due out Oct 6th, and "will deliver new customer experiences through an improved, easy-to-use user interface, better browsing capabilities and access to valuable services, including Windows Marketplace for Mobile and Microsoft My Phone" I was referring to Windows Mobile 7 though EDIT: here's more about WM7: http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/windows-mobile-7-to-be-a-premium-multitouch-beast-of-a-platform/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/windows-mobile-7-to-be-a-...
  - snprbob86 17y ago
    Yes, there are big plans for Windows Mobile 7. No, I will not tell you about them. Microsoft is a big beast to move, but once it gains momentum you should watch out. It's certainly not going to be tomorrow, but Windows Mobile will be competitive with iPhone eventually.
    - icey 17y ago
      Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the big migration to CoreCLR?
      - snprbob86 17y ago
        Which part of "I will not tell you" isn't clear? :-)
        icey 17y ago
        Sorry, had to try :D
alain94040 17y ago
And now it works on my Mac (one of the main complaints the first time it launched http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=734886 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=734886) so I can actually play with it.
socratees 17y ago
I feel that the whole web concept using a browser based interface is a bit hyped now. And anyways believe it or not, iPhone is the first true Web OS. And so is Google Android. It's sad Microsoft hasn't taken this kind of thing seriously yet.
- axod 17y ago
  >> "It's sad Microsoft hasn't taken this kind of thing seriously yet." I'm sort of pleased. Look what happened when they took Netscape seriously. We got years of crappy IE dominance. The longer they flap around all confused while the rest of us move forward, the better. Pretty soon the advantage of silverlight/flash over HTML5/js will be 0. It's pretty slim as it is IMHO.
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  "And anyways believe it or not, iPhone is the first true Web OS. And so is Google Android." How so? Are they executing core OS code on some cloud?
idm 17y ago
Extremely impressive. ...although it's not clear why this isn't a huge vector to cause all sorts of havoc. The idea of having an executable sandbox that anyone can drop executable code into sounds famously ill-conceived. Every time a site like yahoo mail or myspace has a javascript sanitation problem, this causes major problems.. Sure, the "web at large" is like a big space filled with executable scripts, but at least there is a level of accountability established by the site that is hosting any scripts you're executing. While javascript might execute in a sandbox, it's still wise to use NoScript. I don't know enough about silverlight to know whether or not to trust it, so by default, I am skeptical. I'm even more skeptical of a site that built on the idea of user-contributed apps that run in a silverlight sandbox. I do appreciate the built-in ability to view the source code of the apps, however. The reputation system for apps might also make it possible to crowd-filter out the worst ones. All the same, I saw an app named "infinite" that I imagine amounts to a denial of service. Yes, it was voted "-1" but it's probably a DOS, lurking in the user-submitted apps. Interesting experiment, but I have reservations.
- trunnell 17y ago
  although it's not clear why this isn't a huge vector to cause all sorts of havoc. First the larger question: Is the Silverlight sandbox safe? The Silverlight CoreCLR security model is a simplified version of the full CLR security model [1]. Some callouts: - C# "unsafe" code blocks, which let you access raw pointers, are not allowed. - P/Invoke and COM Interop are not allowed. - There are whole categories of the .NET class library that have been removed, a notable example being local file access. Silverlight is not like Adobe AIR, which gives you all sorts of native APIs. - Socket communications are restricted by default to the original host from which the Silverlight app was downloaded. Cross-domain access can be granted by supplying either a Flash policy file or a Silverlight-native policy file. [2] Therefore, to say whether this could be used for DDOS attacks on other hosts, we need to look at the network access policy file. Here it is: http://www.wiki-os.org/clientaccesspolicy.xml http://www.wiki-os.org/clientaccesspolicy.xml . As configured now, Wiki-OS allows incoming HTTP connections from any host, but outgoing connections are only permitted to the original host (and outgoing connections can only use the WebClient-- outgoing raw socket connections are not allowed). This is interesting. If I'm reading that file correctly, it seems you could write a Wiki-OS network server but not a DDOS vehicle. [1] "Security In Silverlight 2" http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc765416.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc765416.aspx [2] "Network Security Access Restrictions in Silverlight" http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc645032(VS.95).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc645032(VS.95).aspx
rbanffy 17y ago
Just what nobody needed!

21 points by happyjoe 17y ago

This is really cool...the best use of Silverlight I've seen so far. Now Microsoft just needs to cook a clever implementation of Silverlight into the next version of Windows Mobile to have a truly powerful mobile platform.

jrockway 17y ago
"next version of Windows Mobile" Is there even a plan for this? It seems like Microsoft clearly lost this one and doesn't even care anymore.
- listic 17y ago
  Really? Who won then? Last times I checked, Windows Mobile is the prevalent operating system on phones.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Which is several years behind Android and iPhone OS in terms of features, with no new release announced.
    - listic 17y ago
      But this doesn't imply that Windows "lost", does it?
    - jawngee 17y ago
      What's it like being wrong so frequently, as you seem to be on HN: http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+mobile+7&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+mobile+7&ie=UTF-8...
      - jrockway 17y ago
        Let me guess, it includes WinFS too!
  - alain94040 17y ago
    Windows Mobile is the prevalent operating system on phones If you work for Microsoft, you may find comfort in that fact, but for everyone else out there, I wouldn't bet on Windows Mobile dominance based on what's happening with the iPhone (followed long-term by Android). Kind of like GM selling SUVs until last year...
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- byoung2 17y ago
  http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/sep09/09-01WindowsPhoneAvailablePR.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/sep09/09-01Win... Windows Mobile 6.5 is due out Oct 6th, and "will deliver new customer experiences through an improved, easy-to-use user interface, better browsing capabilities and access to valuable services, including Windows Marketplace for Mobile and Microsoft My Phone" I was referring to Windows Mobile 7 though EDIT: here's more about WM7: http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/windows-mobile-7-to-be-a-premium-multitouch-beast-of-a-platform/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/windows-mobile-7-to-be-a-...
- snprbob86 17y ago
  Yes, there are big plans for Windows Mobile 7. No, I will not tell you about them. Microsoft is a big beast to move, but once it gains momentum you should watch out. It's certainly not going to be tomorrow, but Windows Mobile will be competitive with iPhone eventually.
  - icey 17y ago
    Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the big migration to CoreCLR?
    - snprbob86 17y ago
      Which part of "I will not tell you" isn't clear? :-)
      - icey 17y ago
        Sorry, had to try :D

alain94040 17y ago

And now it works on my Mac (one of the main complaints the first time it launched http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=734886 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=734886) so I can actually play with it.

socratees 17y ago

I feel that the whole web concept using a browser based interface is a bit hyped now. And anyways believe it or not, iPhone is the first true Web OS. And so is Google Android. It's sad Microsoft hasn't taken this kind of thing seriously yet.

axod 17y ago
>> "It's sad Microsoft hasn't taken this kind of thing seriously yet." I'm sort of pleased. Look what happened when they took Netscape seriously. We got years of crappy IE dominance. The longer they flap around all confused while the rest of us move forward, the better. Pretty soon the advantage of silverlight/flash over HTML5/js will be 0. It's pretty slim as it is IMHO.
jamesbritt 17y ago
"And anyways believe it or not, iPhone is the first true Web OS. And so is Google Android." How so? Are they executing core OS code on some cloud?

idm 17y ago

Extremely impressive. ...although it's not clear why this isn't a huge vector to cause all sorts of havoc. The idea of having an executable sandbox that anyone can drop executable code into sounds famously ill-conceived. Every time a site like yahoo mail or myspace has a javascript sanitation problem, this causes major problems.. Sure, the "web at large" is like a big space filled with executable scripts, but at least there is a level of accountability established by the site that is hosting any scripts you're executing. While javascript might execute in a sandbox, it's still wise to use NoScript. I don't know enough about silverlight to know whether or not to trust it, so by default, I am skeptical. I'm even more skeptical of a site that built on the idea of user-contributed apps that run in a silverlight sandbox. I do appreciate the built-in ability to view the source code of the apps, however. The reputation system for apps might also make it possible to crowd-filter out the worst ones. All the same, I saw an app named "infinite" that I imagine amounts to a denial of service. Yes, it was voted "-1" but it's probably a DOS, lurking in the user-submitted apps. Interesting experiment, but I have reservations.

trunnell 17y ago
although it's not clear why this isn't a huge vector to cause all sorts of havoc. First the larger question: Is the Silverlight sandbox safe? The Silverlight CoreCLR security model is a simplified version of the full CLR security model [1]. Some callouts: - C# "unsafe" code blocks, which let you access raw pointers, are not allowed. - P/Invoke and COM Interop are not allowed. - There are whole categories of the .NET class library that have been removed, a notable example being local file access. Silverlight is not like Adobe AIR, which gives you all sorts of native APIs. - Socket communications are restricted by default to the original host from which the Silverlight app was downloaded. Cross-domain access can be granted by supplying either a Flash policy file or a Silverlight-native policy file. [2] Therefore, to say whether this could be used for DDOS attacks on other hosts, we need to look at the network access policy file. Here it is: http://www.wiki-os.org/clientaccesspolicy.xml http://www.wiki-os.org/clientaccesspolicy.xml . As configured now, Wiki-OS allows incoming HTTP connections from any host, but outgoing connections are only permitted to the original host (and outgoing connections can only use the WebClient-- outgoing raw socket connections are not allowed). This is interesting. If I'm reading that file correctly, it seems you could write a Wiki-OS network server but not a DDOS vehicle. [1] "Security In Silverlight 2" http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc765416.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc765416.aspx [2] "Network Security Access Restrictions in Silverlight" http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc645032(VS.95).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc645032(VS.95).aspx

rbanffy 17y ago

Just what nobody needed!