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Are they now? Part of what you do at a university is build your professional network, both upwards, through your mentors, and sideways, with your peers. You a

Are they now? Part of what you do at a university is build your professional network, both upwards, through your mentors, and sideways, with your peers. You also get introduced to new developments in your field, through informal, unscripted interactions, just walk down the hall and talk to the fellow in the office two doors down. That's a university. You don't get that through online courses. For a trade school, online courses work just fine. And the ruling class needs well-trained, obedient drones.

solarmist 12y ago
HA! I hear this all the time and it certainly didn't apply to me. This has a lot of assumptions baked into it. 1) You actually socialize with classmates (I didn't). 2) You either went to a top ranked school or stayed in the area where those graduates generally migrate to. (I didn't) 3) You did activities outside of class (I did (mainly embedded or MS talks), but were outside where I'm actually doing, so I'd call this a wash too) Only as a grad student in math (but not computer science) did I feel I got the kind of interaction that makes in person classes, lectures, interaction more valuable. Honestly I don't think I got much out of university that I couldn't have gotten online. Where I learned the most was my first three months in the industry. I learned VCS, scripting, bug tracking, code review, and about meet-ups/user groups. Basically everything important that wasn't programming.
- mjwhansen 12y ago
  It sounds like you didn't take advantage of all of the resources available then. Just because you didn't network in college doesn't mean it isn't useful.
  - solarmist 12y ago
    Of course, but I think there's a large percentage (minimum double digits, I'd guess probably at least in the 20's or 30's though) that were just like me and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference if they did their degree in a box, on the internet, or on a campus. At the time I didn't even know that was something your were supposed to do unless you were in a frat or a business major. To me college was a place to go and take classes and get your degree and that was pretty much it or at least that was what I was lead to believe was the only important part.
    - HarryHirsch 12y ago
      When I started university, the first thing that they told us, at the beginning of the first class, was to form groups and try to meet people. You just made the best argument in favour of the much ridiculed student success centers, deans of diversity &c. You can put someone from an educated family into a university and they will do just fine; if they aren't they will get advice from their parents, and then they will do fine. But access to university is less exclusive nowadays, and first-generation students will need some boost or prodding that their upbringing just couldn't provide to take all possible advantage of their environment (and it isn't their fault).
      - solarmist 12y ago
        Yup, exactly, but it was new to me and didn't stick at all. Only now do I know what I should've done while there. My dad got his degree; he was first generation and didn't get a lot out of it, so I'm basically a second first generation college student and have had to pick up most of this myself. My kids will get a lot more out of their experiences than I did though.
skinnybatch 12y ago
You are absolutely right about the invaluable experience of attending a university in person. However, there are less fortunate individuals that crave an education but can neither afford nor gain access to the university system. I am of course referring to both students inside and outside of the United States. There are absolutely elements that one cannot replicate online; however, given the choice between online education and none at all? Well, the choice seems painfully clear. I understand that you were not suggesting that online education is futile, and simply advocating the benefits of attending university on campus. I believe that it's important not just to look at where the two experiences are dissimilar, and the disadvantages of MOOC, but rather to also recognize the advantages MOOC offers to many, as the alternative to no education at all.
psbp 12y ago
That networking has to be done in proximity to other people is, and will increasingly be, an outdated concept.
- AndyNemmity 12y ago
  In my experience, networking requires one strong interaction. Drinking once with someone especially helps. After that strong interaction, proximity is irrelevant.
  - SiVal 12y ago
    +1. I think that's a wise observation.
AndyNemmity 12y ago
I decided not to go the University because I'd rather be paid to learn, than pay to learn. I'm 33 now, and have 15 years of experience in my field. I have a professional network that is incredible. I learned everything I know from online courses, or online documentation. People who graduated college are years behind, and in debt for it. So my argument is that a university is a poor place to build a professional network in comparison to your actual profession. Especially upwards where you will have contacts several places higher than you developed over years. A professional environment introduces you to new developments in your field.

solarmist 12y ago

HA! I hear this all the time and it certainly didn't apply to me. This has a lot of assumptions baked into it. 1) You actually socialize with classmates (I didn't). 2) You either went to a top ranked school or stayed in the area where those graduates generally migrate to. (I didn't) 3) You did activities outside of class (I did (mainly embedded or MS talks), but were outside where I'm actually doing, so I'd call this a wash too) Only as a grad student in math (but not computer science) did I feel I got the kind of interaction that makes in person classes, lectures, interaction more valuable. Honestly I don't think I got much out of university that I couldn't have gotten online. Where I learned the most was my first three months in the industry. I learned VCS, scripting, bug tracking, code review, and about meet-ups/user groups. Basically everything important that wasn't programming.

mjwhansen 12y ago
It sounds like you didn't take advantage of all of the resources available then. Just because you didn't network in college doesn't mean it isn't useful.
- solarmist 12y ago
  Of course, but I think there's a large percentage (minimum double digits, I'd guess probably at least in the 20's or 30's though) that were just like me and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference if they did their degree in a box, on the internet, or on a campus. At the time I didn't even know that was something your were supposed to do unless you were in a frat or a business major. To me college was a place to go and take classes and get your degree and that was pretty much it or at least that was what I was lead to believe was the only important part.
  - HarryHirsch 12y ago
    When I started university, the first thing that they told us, at the beginning of the first class, was to form groups and try to meet people. You just made the best argument in favour of the much ridiculed student success centers, deans of diversity &c. You can put someone from an educated family into a university and they will do just fine; if they aren't they will get advice from their parents, and then they will do fine. But access to university is less exclusive nowadays, and first-generation students will need some boost or prodding that their upbringing just couldn't provide to take all possible advantage of their environment (and it isn't their fault).
    - solarmist 12y ago
      Yup, exactly, but it was new to me and didn't stick at all. Only now do I know what I should've done while there. My dad got his degree; he was first generation and didn't get a lot out of it, so I'm basically a second first generation college student and have had to pick up most of this myself. My kids will get a lot more out of their experiences than I did though.

skinnybatch 12y ago

You are absolutely right about the invaluable experience of attending a university in person. However, there are less fortunate individuals that crave an education but can neither afford nor gain access to the university system. I am of course referring to both students inside and outside of the United States. There are absolutely elements that one cannot replicate online; however, given the choice between online education and none at all? Well, the choice seems painfully clear. I understand that you were not suggesting that online education is futile, and simply advocating the benefits of attending university on campus. I believe that it's important not just to look at where the two experiences are dissimilar, and the disadvantages of MOOC, but rather to also recognize the advantages MOOC offers to many, as the alternative to no education at all.

psbp 12y ago

That networking has to be done in proximity to other people is, and will increasingly be, an outdated concept.

AndyNemmity 12y ago
In my experience, networking requires one strong interaction. Drinking once with someone especially helps. After that strong interaction, proximity is irrelevant.
- SiVal 12y ago
  +1. I think that's a wise observation.

AndyNemmity 12y ago

I decided not to go the University because I'd rather be paid to learn, than pay to learn. I'm 33 now, and have 15 years of experience in my field. I have a professional network that is incredible. I learned everything I know from online courses, or online documentation. People who graduated college are years behind, and in debt for it. So my argument is that a university is a poor place to build a professional network in comparison to your actual profession. Especially upwards where you will have contacts several places higher than you developed over years. A professional environment introduces you to new developments in your field.