5 ms·

The bit about Uber saying it screened drivers thoroughly, and then the DA (or the office) finding examples where that was clearly not true is interesting and (I

by bigdubs 12y ago

The bit about Uber saying it screened drivers thoroughly, and then the DA (or the office) finding examples where that was clearly not true is interesting and (IMHO) not unreasonable. The weights and measures complaint I am curious about and wonder if it's to do with surge pricing. For the record I'm against surge pricing as I feel it amounts to usury in the Aquinian sense.

Meekro 12y ago
I wonder how many people in ordinary taxis got assaulted during the same time period. The DA's "failed background check" example reminds me of how one Model S caught on fire, and everyone freaked out and forgot that regular cars do that all the time, too.
- richcsmith 12y ago
  Beyond the scope. The DA didn't say he wanted them to offer more thorough background checks or threaten to shut them down if they didn't. Likewise, afaik, he's also not going after taxi companies saying drivers aren't allowed to drive if they have records, because it's not illegal. That said, I think it's completely reasonable for the city to ask these companies to stop lying to consumers to make us feel safer for the sake of their revenue. I'm totally for innovation and everything that comes with it though. I want these companies to succeed (well, maybe not Uber) but them behaving in this way is going to make it more difficult from a legal perspective for the startups of tomorrow. Anyway, does anyone know if there's any type of 'Startup Legal Counsel' where companies that are innovating faster than the the law is able to evolve can be advised on the laws they may be breaking or help them lobby to get relevant laws updated faster before it has to get to this point? Or should they just know better?
- jonknee 12y ago
  Yea and it wasn't really failed. Uber says they weed out people with dangerous driving records and the DA didn't mention the driver had one. The cited "Felony drug dealing" sounds really scary, but it was for selling weed five years ago. After this specific case Uber volunteered to make its background checks more rigorous. http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Uber-driver-charged-with-punching-S-F-passenger-5526413.php http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Uber-driver-charged-wi... Seems like a DA being a DA and it will go away once his power tantrum runs its course.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    George Gascón is not someone given to 'power tantrums'. On the contrary, he has a reputation for booth coolheadedness and very high ethical standards. I think you should read up on him before throwing stereotypes around.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  Taxi drivers are probably much more likely to be the victims of crimes.
qq66 12y ago
Are you against demand-based pricing for other things? Such as eBay auctions, fluctuating gas prices, etc?
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  Ebay auctions aren't a necessary utility, and gas station prices don't change on an hourly basis at the whim of a single corporation. (As far as I know?)
  - jdreaver 12y ago
    Surge pricing is necessary for more important goods, or else there will be a shortage! When there is a hurricane, and the government declares a ban on "price gouging," then there is inevitably a shortage on things like gasoline, water, food, etc, because people by more than they need. When these goods cost more, people will tend to by only as much as they need. A sudden increase in demand should be met with a corresponding increase in price, but that is not allowed to happen. Furthermore, if the price of water, gas, and food goes up, then it is profitable for people to drive hundreds of miles in trucks with those goods to sell them, thus increasing the supply. In the case of Uber and Lyft, surge pricing sorts out who really wants the rides. You might rethink going to the mall or the bar during surge pricing because you are competing with people who need those rides much more. If surge pricing was banned, then a traveler might not be able to get home from the airport because someone wanted an Uber ride to a sports bar to watch a football game.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      In the case of Uber and Lyft, surge pricing sorts out who really wants the rides. No it doesn't - it sorts out who really wants the ride and can pay the price. Like many things in economics, laws of supply and demand are expressed ceteris paribus - all other things being equal. When everyone has the same amount of money, then demand pricing does indeed reflect who wants a good or service more. But in the real world this isn't true, so the idealized law does not accurately model real economic behavior and thus you shouldn't build on such a shaky foundation. One reason that regulators impose price controls on taxi services is to give people with lesser income a degree of predictability about what a taxi ride will cost. The downside of this is indeed shortages, but insofar as time is fungible surge pricing leads to shoratages as well, it's just that they only affect poorer people who have to wait for the richer people to exhaust their demand. If surge pricing was banned, then a traveler might not be able to get home from the airport because someone wanted an Uber ride to a sports bar to watch a football game. That really makes no sense. If a sufficiently exciting game is on then people may be willing to pay top $ to be taken to sports bars and make the ride from the airport unaffordable. Indeed, given the relative scarcity of football games to plane flights, surge pricing seems more likely to occur in response to a popular sporting event than a flight arrival. I'm perplexed as to why you assume the air traveler is willing or able to pay more (although we can easily understand wanting to take a cab instead of a bus or train after a tiring journey), or why you assume that this would necessarily lead to a more economically efficient result. As a purely anecdotal observation, I've never had a problem getting a cab at an airport, and only rarely at a train station. Cab drivers also like predictability and while they might be able to make more via surge pricing during very busy periods, there's also value in having places where the demand is very predictable, like transit infrastructure. Like everyone else, cab drivers have different priorities - some may be happy to chase demand, others may need to work fixed hours because of family or contractual commitments, and want less income volatility. I'm not railing against demand-based pricing here, I'm just pointing out that the real world is more complex than just supply and demand.
a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
How is demand pricing usurious? Are you against airlines charging more on Fridays and closer to flight dates etc.?
cycrutchfield 12y ago
How is it usury to charge a price that is set by demand for a service?

by bigdubs 12y ago

Meekro 12y ago

I wonder how many people in ordinary taxis got assaulted during the same time period. The DA's "failed background check" example reminds me of how one Model S caught on fire, and everyone freaked out and forgot that regular cars do that all the time, too.

richcsmith 12y ago
Beyond the scope. The DA didn't say he wanted them to offer more thorough background checks or threaten to shut them down if they didn't. Likewise, afaik, he's also not going after taxi companies saying drivers aren't allowed to drive if they have records, because it's not illegal. That said, I think it's completely reasonable for the city to ask these companies to stop lying to consumers to make us feel safer for the sake of their revenue. I'm totally for innovation and everything that comes with it though. I want these companies to succeed (well, maybe not Uber) but them behaving in this way is going to make it more difficult from a legal perspective for the startups of tomorrow. Anyway, does anyone know if there's any type of 'Startup Legal Counsel' where companies that are innovating faster than the the law is able to evolve can be advised on the laws they may be breaking or help them lobby to get relevant laws updated faster before it has to get to this point? Or should they just know better?
jonknee 12y ago
Yea and it wasn't really failed. Uber says they weed out people with dangerous driving records and the DA didn't mention the driver had one. The cited "Felony drug dealing" sounds really scary, but it was for selling weed five years ago. After this specific case Uber volunteered to make its background checks more rigorous. http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Uber-driver-charged-with-punching-S-F-passenger-5526413.php http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Uber-driver-charged-wi... Seems like a DA being a DA and it will go away once his power tantrum runs its course.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  George Gascón is not someone given to 'power tantrums'. On the contrary, he has a reputation for booth coolheadedness and very high ethical standards. I think you should read up on him before throwing stereotypes around.
UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
Taxi drivers are probably much more likely to be the victims of crimes.

qq66 12y ago

Are you against demand-based pricing for other things? Such as eBay auctions, fluctuating gas prices, etc?

pavel_lishin 12y ago
Ebay auctions aren't a necessary utility, and gas station prices don't change on an hourly basis at the whim of a single corporation. (As far as I know?)
- jdreaver 12y ago
  Surge pricing is necessary for more important goods, or else there will be a shortage! When there is a hurricane, and the government declares a ban on "price gouging," then there is inevitably a shortage on things like gasoline, water, food, etc, because people by more than they need. When these goods cost more, people will tend to by only as much as they need. A sudden increase in demand should be met with a corresponding increase in price, but that is not allowed to happen. Furthermore, if the price of water, gas, and food goes up, then it is profitable for people to drive hundreds of miles in trucks with those goods to sell them, thus increasing the supply. In the case of Uber and Lyft, surge pricing sorts out who really wants the rides. You might rethink going to the mall or the bar during surge pricing because you are competing with people who need those rides much more. If surge pricing was banned, then a traveler might not be able to get home from the airport because someone wanted an Uber ride to a sports bar to watch a football game.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    In the case of Uber and Lyft, surge pricing sorts out who really wants the rides. No it doesn't - it sorts out who really wants the ride and can pay the price. Like many things in economics, laws of supply and demand are expressed ceteris paribus - all other things being equal. When everyone has the same amount of money, then demand pricing does indeed reflect who wants a good or service more. But in the real world this isn't true, so the idealized law does not accurately model real economic behavior and thus you shouldn't build on such a shaky foundation. One reason that regulators impose price controls on taxi services is to give people with lesser income a degree of predictability about what a taxi ride will cost. The downside of this is indeed shortages, but insofar as time is fungible surge pricing leads to shoratages as well, it's just that they only affect poorer people who have to wait for the richer people to exhaust their demand. If surge pricing was banned, then a traveler might not be able to get home from the airport because someone wanted an Uber ride to a sports bar to watch a football game. That really makes no sense. If a sufficiently exciting game is on then people may be willing to pay top $ to be taken to sports bars and make the ride from the airport unaffordable. Indeed, given the relative scarcity of football games to plane flights, surge pricing seems more likely to occur in response to a popular sporting event than a flight arrival. I'm perplexed as to why you assume the air traveler is willing or able to pay more (although we can easily understand wanting to take a cab instead of a bus or train after a tiring journey), or why you assume that this would necessarily lead to a more economically efficient result. As a purely anecdotal observation, I've never had a problem getting a cab at an airport, and only rarely at a train station. Cab drivers also like predictability and while they might be able to make more via surge pricing during very busy periods, there's also value in having places where the demand is very predictable, like transit infrastructure. Like everyone else, cab drivers have different priorities - some may be happy to chase demand, others may need to work fixed hours because of family or contractual commitments, and want less income volatility. I'm not railing against demand-based pricing here, I'm just pointing out that the real world is more complex than just supply and demand.

a8da6b0c91d 12y ago

How is demand pricing usurious? Are you against airlines charging more on Fridays and closer to flight dates etc.?

cycrutchfield 12y ago

How is it usury to charge a price that is set by demand for a service?