4 ms·

"could some benevolent person use the bug to cause remote systems to run something like " That's not benevolent that's intrusion. Nobody has the right to take

by larrys 12y ago

"could some benevolent person use the bug to cause remote systems to run something like " That's not benevolent that's intrusion. Nobody has the right to take it upon themselves to determine what someone else should be doing in this case. I would imagine that an action like that would also clearly violate a law or two (I'm sure others more knowledgeable could cite the law).

benjamincburns 12y ago
At the risk of participating in a philosophical debate, I pose a classic counterexample: You encounter a car parked on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. Its windows are rolled down. Storm clouds are rumbling nearby and it's obviously about to rain. There's nobody around but you. Do you also consider rolling up the windows to be intrusion? Personally I'd feel an ethical obligation to help the stranger out by preventing damage to his/her property. However I can completely understand people leaving well-enough alone. Law aside, I'm much more on the fence about people automatically scanning for and "fixing" vulnerabilities, however. On one hand, how do you know you're really helping? On the other, as someone who's maintained a server or two, I'd rather be solving problems caused by a well-intentioned whitehat than miss problems caused by ill-intentioned blackhats.
- djokkataja 12y ago
  Depends on if it has power windows ;)
- larrys 12y ago
  "Do you also consider rolling up the windows to be intrusion?" Yes definitely. Really no different than if you would want someone to enter your house to close your windows. Now you might say "well what if it can be done from the outside" without entering? That is a bit different. Except for one thing. What if someone saw you doing that? What if the owner saw you doing that and didn't know why you were messing with their car? (I had this happen with a boat one time btw.). There is an immediately sense of shock because you don't know what is going on. And in that case who knows what will happen? Maybe they might start a fight or shoot you. That's not good for anyone. Maybe they have something valuable in the car that they think you are going after. Maybe they have serious mental problems. Here's the point. It's one thing if you see a baby in a hot car and decide to take action. The benefit outweighs the risks. But it's another thing if you decide to roll up the windows to prevent someone's car from getting wet inside (covered by homeowners insurance with low deductible in many cases ntim though). Different story. Make sense?

by larrys 12y ago

benjamincburns 12y ago

At the risk of participating in a philosophical debate, I pose a classic counterexample: You encounter a car parked on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. Its windows are rolled down. Storm clouds are rumbling nearby and it's obviously about to rain. There's nobody around but you. Do you also consider rolling up the windows to be intrusion? Personally I'd feel an ethical obligation to help the stranger out by preventing damage to his/her property. However I can completely understand people leaving well-enough alone. Law aside, I'm much more on the fence about people automatically scanning for and "fixing" vulnerabilities, however. On one hand, how do you know you're really helping? On the other, as someone who's maintained a server or two, I'd rather be solving problems caused by a well-intentioned whitehat than miss problems caused by ill-intentioned blackhats.

djokkataja 12y ago
Depends on if it has power windows ;)
larrys 12y ago
"Do you also consider rolling up the windows to be intrusion?" Yes definitely. Really no different than if you would want someone to enter your house to close your windows. Now you might say "well what if it can be done from the outside" without entering? That is a bit different. Except for one thing. What if someone saw you doing that? What if the owner saw you doing that and didn't know why you were messing with their car? (I had this happen with a boat one time btw.). There is an immediately sense of shock because you don't know what is going on. And in that case who knows what will happen? Maybe they might start a fight or shoot you. That's not good for anyone. Maybe they have something valuable in the car that they think you are going after. Maybe they have serious mental problems. Here's the point. It's one thing if you see a baby in a hot car and decide to take action. The benefit outweighs the risks. But it's another thing if you decide to roll up the windows to prevent someone's car from getting wet inside (covered by homeowners insurance with low deductible in many cases ntim though). Different story. Make sense?