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(I posted a similar comment a few months ago.[1] To be clear I have nothing against the India, its space program or its achievements, but it's impossible to di

(I posted a similar comment a few months ago.[1] To be clear I have nothing against the India, its space program or its achievements, but it's impossible to discuss the low price of the mission without discussing the elephant in the room) There is clear lack of sterilization techniques being used on the ISRO spacecraft. This is clearly visible in the public photos and videos. NASA spend a great deal of time and sterilizing deep space probes to reduce the chance of Earth microbes colonizing a place like Mars, or a moon of Jupiter, but ISRO does not. Watch this video and showing assembly of this particular spacecraft http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepares-for-launch-video.html http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepare... Compare the NASA cleanroom assembling Curiosity - http://www.nasa.gov/centers/jpl/images/content/482654main_pia13388-640.jpg http://www.nasa.gov/centers/jpl/images/content/482654main_pi.... Most engineers at the Indian Space Research Organisation seen directly operating on the spacecraft are not using facial masks or even gloves for interplanetary missions, let alone full cleanroom coveralls. http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01608/vbk-05-mars_1608506g.jpg http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01608/vbk-05-mars... (via http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-october-28-mars-mission-on-schedule-isro/article5204371.ece http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-october-28-m...) It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life It also jibes with this anecdote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6552078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6552078 This comment has nothing to do with India, ISRO, politics or Mars, but I am curious if anyone with expertise can comment on the clean room practices seen applied in this video. Is it odd that the workers don't have on full 'bunny' suits and have (what seems to be) a relatively large amount of skin/hair unprotected? I don't know if it matters that much, it just seems a little lax given the cost of failure. Firstly, I've visited ISRO Bangalore(A few years back). And I did see the exact things you mentioned. I did ask the guy(Not sure, if he was the PR guy) who took our class for the tour. His answer was, they were likely assembling some test equipment and not the real equipment that was going to space. (Which unlikely given parent's NYT article:) The modest budget did not allow for multiple iterations. So, instead of building many models (a qualification model, a flight model and a flight spare), as is the norm for American and European agencies, scientists built the final flight model right from the start. It's unclear whether the room is a climate and particulate controlled cleanroom up to the standards required for inplanetary probes, but they may (hopefully) do sterilization through chemical and heat treatments - but that alone isn't enough for planetary protection. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7964261#up_7964499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7964261#up_7964499

shas3 12y ago
Curiosity is a rover. Rovers require cleanrooms for assembly for the reasons that you just mentioned, since they land. I don't think this is an issue with orbiters. For example, one of the reasons failing orbiters are of concern is that contamination can be an issue if they crash into the surface. See Japanese orbiter Nozomi, for example: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/29/national/experts-fear-orbiter-nozomi-will-collide-with-pollute-mars/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/29/national/experts... Using the expert rule, I can't imagine Indian engineers not being concerned about contamination. It is such an obvious risk that it is probably one of the first things they'd look for. I mean, there is 50 years of precedent available to anyone working in this field. Edit: Also, they may have done their work in non-cleanroom environments and post that, they may have sterilized the orbiter. Edit 2: Sorry for the multiple edits, but in spite of Hanlon's razor, I sense an underlying bias. Here's another NASA photo of a satellite assembly, and they are using ungloved hands: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter_solar_panel.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mars_Reconnaissance_O... ESA Mercury orbiter: http://sci.esa.int/bepicolombo/50304-removing-the-clamp-bands/ http://sci.esa.int/bepicolombo/50304-removing-the-clamp-band... (I think there's a guy leaning over in the bottom left corner of the pic and probably dripping snot on to the orbiter too.)
- cscurmudgeon 12y ago
  Not to call out someperson, but I would love to see him/her respond to your last two photos.
- rzimmerman 12y ago
  In the MRO image it's hard to see, but I'm pretty sure they are wearing thin white gloves (probably nitrile). The ESA picture says its from a thermal and mass model, and the guy in question is hovering over a test fixture. I can't say much about the ISRO video. I hope it's just press footage of something that isn't the actual flight unit. That would be pretty reasonable. Later in the video you can see the techs wearing gloves pulling the vehicle off a moment of inertia test. It's encouraging, but the fact that they're wearing hair nets while half the guys have giant, uncovered beards is not. With Curiosity, NASA even went so far as to aim the initial trajectory to miss Mars. This was out of fear that the upper stage of the rocket, which did not have the same amount of contamination control, would collide with the planet. MOM's orbit is fairly eccentric, so it's not likely to collide with Mars any time soon. I think we have a lot of time to study Mars before we worry about any potential contamination.

shas3 12y ago

Curiosity is a rover. Rovers require cleanrooms for assembly for the reasons that you just mentioned, since they land. I don't think this is an issue with orbiters. For example, one of the reasons failing orbiters are of concern is that contamination can be an issue if they crash into the surface. See Japanese orbiter Nozomi, for example: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/29/national/experts-fear-orbiter-nozomi-will-collide-with-pollute-mars/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/29/national/experts... Using the expert rule, I can't imagine Indian engineers not being concerned about contamination. It is such an obvious risk that it is probably one of the first things they'd look for. I mean, there is 50 years of precedent available to anyone working in this field. Edit: Also, they may have done their work in non-cleanroom environments and post that, they may have sterilized the orbiter. Edit 2: Sorry for the multiple edits, but in spite of Hanlon's razor, I sense an underlying bias. Here's another NASA photo of a satellite assembly, and they are using ungloved hands: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter_solar_panel.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mars_Reconnaissance_O... ESA Mercury orbiter: http://sci.esa.int/bepicolombo/50304-removing-the-clamp-bands/ http://sci.esa.int/bepicolombo/50304-removing-the-clamp-band... (I think there's a guy leaning over in the bottom left corner of the pic and probably dripping snot on to the orbiter too.)

cscurmudgeon 12y ago
Not to call out someperson, but I would love to see him/her respond to your last two photos.
rzimmerman 12y ago
In the MRO image it's hard to see, but I'm pretty sure they are wearing thin white gloves (probably nitrile). The ESA picture says its from a thermal and mass model, and the guy in question is hovering over a test fixture. I can't say much about the ISRO video. I hope it's just press footage of something that isn't the actual flight unit. That would be pretty reasonable. Later in the video you can see the techs wearing gloves pulling the vehicle off a moment of inertia test. It's encouraging, but the fact that they're wearing hair nets while half the guys have giant, uncovered beards is not. With Curiosity, NASA even went so far as to aim the initial trajectory to miss Mars. This was out of fear that the upper stage of the rocket, which did not have the same amount of contamination control, would collide with the planet. MOM's orbit is fairly eccentric, so it's not likely to collide with Mars any time soon. I think we have a lot of time to study Mars before we worry about any potential contamination.