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osx guy here. Yes and no. It's true that OSX uses a variety of separate daemons, that run in different pids. However they are all "required", "packaged toget

osx guy here. Yes and no. It's true that OSX uses a variety of separate daemons, that run in different pids. However they are all "required", "packaged together", "part of one source tree" and "shipped by a single vendor". In this respect they are a lot like systemd. In fact it is arguably a lot more integrated. Both Python and Ruby are OSX dependencies. systemd isn't even close to that much of a power-grab.

e7620 12y ago
GNU/Linux requires vi, perl, python... also as dependencies, but they're separate programs, the thing with systemd is that nothing can be separated, you use ALL components at the same time or change OS. Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd.
- RunningDroid 12y ago
  >Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. Do you have a source for this or is it FUD?
  - e7620 12y ago
    Before throwing such accusations, at least search Google or HN itself. http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...
    - RunningDroid 12y ago
      They're saying that after the kernel release with those features comes out they will make a release that depends on those features, not that the kernel and systemd must always be updated together.
- gh02t 12y ago
  > Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. I'm just feeding a troll or someone who is really ignorant, but here I go. No it isn't, and no you don't. Systemd is closely tied to some Linux-specific features, but it generally isn't part of the kernel. And you don't have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. Systemd lives in userland, by definition. It does impose a minimum kernel version in order for systemd to work, which is something like 2.6.39 (May 2011 vintage). They have bumped up the minimum version a couple times as they needed new features, but you don't have to upgrade both together. I routinely upgrade one or the other separately on multiple systems and distros. And it bears repeating again... systemd is not one single executable or process. And not all of the components are required, you can turn all but a few core ones off. And the core ones could be replaced if you wanted to, because there's a documented interface that you can implement. Also, Vi, Python and Perl aren't "required" for GNU/Linux. They're common, but definitely not required. Vi is required if you want to comply with the Single Unix standard, but that is not the same thing. GNU/Linux just refers to pairing the Linux kernel with GNU userspace utilities; it doesn't necessarily dictate any specifics. There are further standards like LSB that attempt to do so but again not relevant. On top of that, Vi, Python and Perl aren't even GNU projects, which is true of a ton of other programs common in Linux distros, which is one reason I personally find the term "GNU/Linux" a bit onerous.
  - e7620 12y ago
    And you don't have to update the kernel in sync with systemd Quote from http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...: > > You update systemd but you don't update the kernel? How does that make > > any sense? > > systemd and kernels are updated in lockstep (Lennart) And it bears repeating again... systemd is not one single executable or process https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364318 Also, Vi, Python and Perl aren't "required" for GNU/Linux. By that definition nothing is ever required. There's the same argument in my comment history, someone said, udev is not required for GNU/Linux. technically, chromium doesn't "require" blink. It's not required, you can use chromium and receive raw html, right? But in that case OSX doesn't "require" Python either, just delete the files, done :) So again, I'm saying, I want a GNU/Linux system. (Yes, it's not required, I can install MS-DOS, HURD, HP-UX or Android.) That means POSIX, LSB... That's what 99%+ of programs targeting GNU/Linux expect.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

e7620 12y ago

GNU/Linux requires vi, perl, python... also as dependencies, but they're separate programs, the thing with systemd is that nothing can be separated, you use ALL components at the same time or change OS. Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd.

RunningDroid 12y ago
>Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. Do you have a source for this or is it FUD?
- e7620 12y ago
  Before throwing such accusations, at least search Google or HN itself. http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...
  - RunningDroid 12y ago
    They're saying that after the kernel release with those features comes out they will make a release that depends on those features, not that the kernel and systemd must always be updated together.
gh02t 12y ago
> Bear in mind that systemd is being integrated with the Linux kernel, so you have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. I'm just feeding a troll or someone who is really ignorant, but here I go. No it isn't, and no you don't. Systemd is closely tied to some Linux-specific features, but it generally isn't part of the kernel. And you don't have to update the kernel in sync with systemd. Systemd lives in userland, by definition. It does impose a minimum kernel version in order for systemd to work, which is something like 2.6.39 (May 2011 vintage). They have bumped up the minimum version a couple times as they needed new features, but you don't have to upgrade both together. I routinely upgrade one or the other separately on multiple systems and distros. And it bears repeating again... systemd is not one single executable or process. And not all of the components are required, you can turn all but a few core ones off. And the core ones could be replaced if you wanted to, because there's a documented interface that you can implement. Also, Vi, Python and Perl aren't "required" for GNU/Linux. They're common, but definitely not required. Vi is required if you want to comply with the Single Unix standard, but that is not the same thing. GNU/Linux just refers to pairing the Linux kernel with GNU userspace utilities; it doesn't necessarily dictate any specifics. There are further standards like LSB that attempt to do so but again not relevant. On top of that, Vi, Python and Perl aren't even GNU projects, which is true of a ton of other programs common in Linux distros, which is one reason I personally find the term "GNU/Linux" a bit onerous.
- e7620 12y ago
  And you don't have to update the kernel in sync with systemd Quote from http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...: > > You update systemd but you don't update the kernel? How does that make > > any sense? > > systemd and kernels are updated in lockstep (Lennart) And it bears repeating again... systemd is not one single executable or process https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364318 Also, Vi, Python and Perl aren't "required" for GNU/Linux. By that definition nothing is ever required. There's the same argument in my comment history, someone said, udev is not required for GNU/Linux. technically, chromium doesn't "require" blink. It's not required, you can use chromium and receive raw html, right? But in that case OSX doesn't "require" Python either, just delete the files, done :) So again, I'm saying, I want a GNU/Linux system. (Yes, it's not required, I can install MS-DOS, HURD, HP-UX or Android.) That means POSIX, LSB... That's what 99%+ of programs targeting GNU/Linux expect.
deleted 12y ago
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