4 ms·

From what I remember, it has some weird license. I can never remember what exactly is weird about it (or that of Qi, a related project), but on a quick reading

by akavel 12y ago

From what I remember, it has some weird license. I can never remember what exactly is weird about it (or that of Qi, a related project), but on a quick reading now, I think at least this: "6. [...] In particular it is not permitted to make derived copies of this software which do not conform to the Shen standard or appear under a different title." (i.e. kinda "no forking" clause, IIUC)

hga 12y ago
The license text itself is sufficiently complicated and multiply redundant it's hard to tell what it's trying to say. By multiply redundant I mean it tries to say the same thing 3 or more times. The author/creator is incapable of seeing the problems this presents (let alone the terms of the license he's trying to get across); no matter how interested I might be in the language, this has turned out to be a show stopper. And, yeah, there's a no forking clause, subjectively judged; he's also has no interest in a test suite, he says there are already enough implementations of the language.
totalzeroone 12y ago
I seem to remember that the author only require that the forked Shen satisfies a number of published tests, that is to guarantee that the forked program function like the original Shen in the basis case. A forked program could extended the original one with new capabilities, libraries and ideas. I think that the author of Shen believe that free sofware should not be free as in beer, now he earn some money selling the Shen book. Only my two cents.
- jcrubino 12y ago
  Shen and Qi are written by an academic. More likely than trying to sell the book is the that author is trying to ensure that the core theories that got put into the languages stay in the language with out alterations to the core principles... what exactly those are I never delved into enough for comment but the documents and history point to a very principled author and language being created.
  - totalzeroone 12y ago
    After searching for the official specification (a term used formally in the license), the only thing I could find is the web page for the documentation that is called the official shen standard doc, http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/shendoc.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/shendoc.htm, so I suppose the official specification is the content of this page. As I don't have the book of Shen I can't tell if there is further documentation about the "specification of the language". The author in the license page claims that he is not going to make a fork illegal by changing the standard in such a way as to make the fork retrospectively illegal. There was one author who made a close source port of Shen in java but then there were big problems. Perhaps he could give a lot of information of what kind of problems are you to encounter when you try to develop a close source product using Shen. The last think I can remember was that he bought the book of Shen for her 16 years old daughter and he was emotionally very interested in Shen but then all went down. [By the way, I apologize for not putting the 's i the third person )). in my other posts.
    - totalzeroone 12y ago
      here is the link https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/yL2Eps2cnwY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/yL2Eps2cnwY
      - MTarver 12y ago
        The issue here was not that the port was closed; but that people helped to build it and gave their time for free on the assumption it was going to be free and readable. My post https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/PJyM6xCzYRg https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/PJyM6xC... opened this topic. The rest is history. I have a clear policy of not contributing my time to closed (for money) software unless I am being paid as a consultant. I do not have any objection as such to closed source software. Mark
        totalzeroone 12y ago
        Hello Mark. Could you give a link to the "specification of Shen", that is, is there a battery of test that for a fork of Shen certifies that the fork is a conforming with the specification fork?, is the "official standard documentation web page of Shen the text of the specification alluded in the license? Thanks for you work in Shen.

by akavel 12y ago

hga 12y ago

The license text itself is sufficiently complicated and multiply redundant it's hard to tell what it's trying to say. By multiply redundant I mean it tries to say the same thing 3 or more times. The author/creator is incapable of seeing the problems this presents (let alone the terms of the license he's trying to get across); no matter how interested I might be in the language, this has turned out to be a show stopper. And, yeah, there's a no forking clause, subjectively judged; he's also has no interest in a test suite, he says there are already enough implementations of the language.

totalzeroone 12y ago

I seem to remember that the author only require that the forked Shen satisfies a number of published tests, that is to guarantee that the forked program function like the original Shen in the basis case. A forked program could extended the original one with new capabilities, libraries and ideas. I think that the author of Shen believe that free sofware should not be free as in beer, now he earn some money selling the Shen book. Only my two cents.

jcrubino 12y ago
Shen and Qi are written by an academic. More likely than trying to sell the book is the that author is trying to ensure that the core theories that got put into the languages stay in the language with out alterations to the core principles... what exactly those are I never delved into enough for comment but the documents and history point to a very principled author and language being created.
- totalzeroone 12y ago
  After searching for the official specification (a term used formally in the license), the only thing I could find is the web page for the documentation that is called the official shen standard doc, http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/shendoc.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/shendoc.htm, so I suppose the official specification is the content of this page. As I don't have the book of Shen I can't tell if there is further documentation about the "specification of the language". The author in the license page claims that he is not going to make a fork illegal by changing the standard in such a way as to make the fork retrospectively illegal. There was one author who made a close source port of Shen in java but then there were big problems. Perhaps he could give a lot of information of what kind of problems are you to encounter when you try to develop a close source product using Shen. The last think I can remember was that he bought the book of Shen for her 16 years old daughter and he was emotionally very interested in Shen but then all went down. [By the way, I apologize for not putting the 's i the third person )). in my other posts.
  - totalzeroone 12y ago
    here is the link https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/yL2Eps2cnwY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/yL2Eps2cnwY
    - MTarver 12y ago
      The issue here was not that the port was closed; but that people helped to build it and gave their time for free on the assumption it was going to be free and readable. My post https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/PJyM6xCzYRg https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/PJyM6xC... opened this topic. The rest is history. I have a clear policy of not contributing my time to closed (for money) software unless I am being paid as a consultant. I do not have any objection as such to closed source software. Mark
      - totalzeroone 12y ago
        Hello Mark. Could you give a link to the "specification of Shen", that is, is there a battery of test that for a fork of Shen certifies that the fork is a conforming with the specification fork?, is the "official standard documentation web page of Shen the text of the specification alluded in the license? Thanks for you work in Shen.