20 ms·

I remember when in 2012, the then PM of India had declared this project. The entire internet community came together to deride this, saying it's not possible i

by sidcool 12y ago

I remember when in 2012, the then PM of India had declared this project. The entire internet community came together to deride this, saying it's not possible in a couple of years and that India had better feed its hungry etc. I am a very proud Indian today. This achievement, like other by humanity (LHC in particular), will encourage me to push myself towards greatness.

induscreep 12y ago
Is this really an achievement when someone else could do it in 1965? Is it an achievement when other countries can land rovers on mars? India should be a leader, not follow others' footsteps. EDIT: 1971, not 1965
- Ankaios 12y ago
  Of course it's an accomplishment, even if others did it long ago. If I successfully run my first marathon (unlikely), it'll still be an accomplishment even though someone else first did it 2500 years ago. Getting a spacecraft into Mars orbit takes skill and careful work. I think it clearly warrants congratulations. Also, by the way, the first Mars orbiter wasn't in 1965—that was the first successful flyby. The first successful orbiter was Mariner 9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariner_9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariner_9) in 1971.
  - induscreep 12y ago
    Maybe I should rephrase. Is this mission a scientific achievement? It could be a economics/accounting/marketing/HR/logistics achievement, but what is new scientifically?
    - sean_the_geek 12y ago
      do you understand enough "science" to fathom "scientific achievement"? If the people behind the mission explained to you "science" in it and what are the "scientific achievement", would you understand them?
      - lobotryas 12y ago
        I think he was implying that this was largely a PR stunt.
      - induscreep 12y ago
        Er yes I can. I want to know what is new since the 1971 orbiter success, and why India cannot put a rover on Mars.
        DanBC 12y ago
        India isbuilding the infrastructure that will allow them to put rovers, and possibly humans, on Mars.
    - gnurag 12y ago
      In the age of NSA sponsored spying, having an independent and largely self-taught space program is indeed a scientific achievement. Especially for a country that's 67 years old.
    - mturmon 12y ago
      Let's put aside the science, because they haven't taken the data they wanted yet, so it's impossible to debate, and indeed somewhat beside the point for this 15kg instrument. The thing about spacecraft is that there is a huge engineering component. The s/c is in a novel environment (vacuum, radiation, cold) and many systems have to work together. You have to figure it all out in advance, using first-principles physics and modeling, and design and build a system that works without further manual intervention. Just getting it there intact is a significant achievement in systems engineering. Technology demonstration is what this mission was about.
usbreply 12y ago
> The entire internet community came together to deride this why the persecution complex ? Yes there was criticism, but there is always criticism of everything on the internet. Another proud Indian.
- sidcool 12y ago
  Not a persecution complex. I did not argue then, I don't wish to deride anyone now. It's just that I feel good about this. Developing countries taking to space. Humanity is progressing.
- melling 12y ago
  Yes, but the people who do a lot of the criticizing seem to just shrug their shoulders then start criticizing the next thing. As humans, we often don't learn from our mistakes. And in democratic societies, we expend a lot of energy dealing with the noise.
  - Cthulhu_ 12y ago
    Almost nobody will admit to being wrong. Plus a lot of people take a lot of satisfaction from being negative about things.
  - humanrebar 12y ago
    On the other hand, people should have listened to critics before the Titanic, the Hindenburg, the last Columbia launch, the last Challenger launch, the Big Dig, the Iraq War, the launch of the Obamacare websites, and a bunch of other large undertakings. The critics were wrong in this case, but writing them off as noise can lead to other mistakes.
    - noisy_boy 12y ago
      With exception of the Iraq War and Universal Healthcare websites, pretty much everything was an accident. Sending an orbiter to Mars is advancing science and knowledge. Aside from the fact that this was an unmanned mission, ambitious projects mostly have an extra element of risk by definition. Inactivity due to that would be stopping advancement. Besides, India spent USD 75 million on it. It's GDP is 1.877 trillion USD approx. Its peanuts[1]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8361505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8361505
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
> The entire internet community I wouldn't call some bored internet-addicted teens and college cynics "the entire internet community." Just because some opinion is upvoted on sites like reddit, doesn't mean its some sample of the general population or the general internet population. College identity politics and extreme political correctness rules the internet, because that's the politics of those who spend the most time on the internet posting opinions. Its not a mainstream view, in my experience. I think you'll find a lot of ISRO fandom and well-wishers out here. The idea that the developing world shouldn't be performing "great works" is asinine and anti-progress. Unfortunately, acting cynical and world-weary is going to be popular with young people because it imitates wisdom, but imo, its probably the worst attitude a young person can have. If you're not enthused and motivated you're just not going to be accomplishing anything. I often need to aggressively park my inner critic and gen-x "who cares" or "that's stupid" attitudes. These attitudes been a huge disservice to me my whole life. When I see others engaging in this type of cynicism, I really do pity them because life has so much to offer if you look at it the right way. >I am a very proud Indian today. You guys should be proud. This is an incredible achievement, especially when you consider the cost and difficulty of the mission.
pierrec 12y ago
The HN discussion was indeed a disheartening mix of skepticism and criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4385241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4385241
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- sidcool 12y ago
  I chuckled reading some of the comments from armchair scientists. This gives me immense hope. For a big part of my life my decisions have been based on other peoples' judgement. Oddly, I feel personally vindicated.
  - jobnobber 12y ago
    I'd say almost a third of HN comments are intentionally misleading or flat-out wrong. I've seen people include fake link citations to try and prove their point. Sadly, there are a huge number of phonies on HN. I'll bet many of them have enough karma to downvote too.
- chdir 12y ago
  There's an insane amount of cynicism and bitterness in that thread. I had to close the tab after a handful of comments.
hypertexthero 12y ago
> “When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” ― Jiddu Krishnamurti, [Freedom From the Known, Chapter 6][freedom] [freedom]: http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=48&chid=56789 http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-tex...
- segmondy 12y ago
  Please, stop with the philosophical garbage. I'm not Indian, but I'm proud of them and very happy for them. We at Hacker News tend to call ourselves hackers, programmers, techies, entrepreneurs, geeks, etc. Are we also being violent?
  - gambiting 12y ago
    You can choose to become a programmer, but you can't choose to be born Indian. I imagine you would take offence if I said I am proud to be white? If people keep saying they are proud because of things they didn't choose, then that breeds social differences.
- allpratik 12y ago
  I agree with segmondy. Instead of classifying this news as Indian achievement, we should look forward to it as world's achievement.Surely those guys had it commendable work in such constrained resource! For me, it's new frontier in science...and boy it's cheap! More the affordability, more the chances of discoveries. Remember when a useful pricey thing becomes affordable without loosing usefulness then it's innovation!
- allpratik 12y ago
  I agree with segmondy. Instead of classifying this news as Indian achievement, we should look forward to it as world's achievement.Surely those guys had it commendable work in such constrained resource! For me, it's new frontier in science...and boy it's cheap! More the affordability, more the chances of discoveries. Remember when a useful pricey thing becomes affordable without loosing usefulness then it's an innovation!
iMuzz 12y ago
Being a part of the "entire internet community" I don't remember doing this.

by sidcool 12y ago

induscreep 12y ago

Is this really an achievement when someone else could do it in 1965? Is it an achievement when other countries can land rovers on mars? India should be a leader, not follow others' footsteps. EDIT: 1971, not 1965

Ankaios 12y ago
Of course it's an accomplishment, even if others did it long ago. If I successfully run my first marathon (unlikely), it'll still be an accomplishment even though someone else first did it 2500 years ago. Getting a spacecraft into Mars orbit takes skill and careful work. I think it clearly warrants congratulations. Also, by the way, the first Mars orbiter wasn't in 1965—that was the first successful flyby. The first successful orbiter was Mariner 9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariner_9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariner_9) in 1971.
- induscreep 12y ago
  Maybe I should rephrase. Is this mission a scientific achievement? It could be a economics/accounting/marketing/HR/logistics achievement, but what is new scientifically?
  - sean_the_geek 12y ago
    do you understand enough "science" to fathom "scientific achievement"? If the people behind the mission explained to you "science" in it and what are the "scientific achievement", would you understand them?
    - lobotryas 12y ago
      I think he was implying that this was largely a PR stunt.
    - induscreep 12y ago
      Er yes I can. I want to know what is new since the 1971 orbiter success, and why India cannot put a rover on Mars.
      - DanBC 12y ago
        India isbuilding the infrastructure that will allow them to put rovers, and possibly humans, on Mars.
  - gnurag 12y ago
    In the age of NSA sponsored spying, having an independent and largely self-taught space program is indeed a scientific achievement. Especially for a country that's 67 years old.
  - mturmon 12y ago
    Let's put aside the science, because they haven't taken the data they wanted yet, so it's impossible to debate, and indeed somewhat beside the point for this 15kg instrument. The thing about spacecraft is that there is a huge engineering component. The s/c is in a novel environment (vacuum, radiation, cold) and many systems have to work together. You have to figure it all out in advance, using first-principles physics and modeling, and design and build a system that works without further manual intervention. Just getting it there intact is a significant achievement in systems engineering. Technology demonstration is what this mission was about.

usbreply 12y ago

> The entire internet community came together to deride this why the persecution complex ? Yes there was criticism, but there is always criticism of everything on the internet. Another proud Indian.

sidcool 12y ago
Not a persecution complex. I did not argue then, I don't wish to deride anyone now. It's just that I feel good about this. Developing countries taking to space. Humanity is progressing.
melling 12y ago
Yes, but the people who do a lot of the criticizing seem to just shrug their shoulders then start criticizing the next thing. As humans, we often don't learn from our mistakes. And in democratic societies, we expend a lot of energy dealing with the noise.
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  Almost nobody will admit to being wrong. Plus a lot of people take a lot of satisfaction from being negative about things.
- humanrebar 12y ago
  On the other hand, people should have listened to critics before the Titanic, the Hindenburg, the last Columbia launch, the last Challenger launch, the Big Dig, the Iraq War, the launch of the Obamacare websites, and a bunch of other large undertakings. The critics were wrong in this case, but writing them off as noise can lead to other mistakes.
  - noisy_boy 12y ago
    With exception of the Iraq War and Universal Healthcare websites, pretty much everything was an accident. Sending an orbiter to Mars is advancing science and knowledge. Aside from the fact that this was an unmanned mission, ambitious projects mostly have an extra element of risk by definition. Inactivity due to that would be stopping advancement. Besides, India spent USD 75 million on it. It's GDP is 1.877 trillion USD approx. Its peanuts[1]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8361505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8361505

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

> The entire internet community I wouldn't call some bored internet-addicted teens and college cynics "the entire internet community." Just because some opinion is upvoted on sites like reddit, doesn't mean its some sample of the general population or the general internet population. College identity politics and extreme political correctness rules the internet, because that's the politics of those who spend the most time on the internet posting opinions. Its not a mainstream view, in my experience. I think you'll find a lot of ISRO fandom and well-wishers out here. The idea that the developing world shouldn't be performing "great works" is asinine and anti-progress. Unfortunately, acting cynical and world-weary is going to be popular with young people because it imitates wisdom, but imo, its probably the worst attitude a young person can have. If you're not enthused and motivated you're just not going to be accomplishing anything. I often need to aggressively park my inner critic and gen-x "who cares" or "that's stupid" attitudes. These attitudes been a huge disservice to me my whole life. When I see others engaging in this type of cynicism, I really do pity them because life has so much to offer if you look at it the right way. >I am a very proud Indian today. You guys should be proud. This is an incredible achievement, especially when you consider the cost and difficulty of the mission.

pierrec 12y ago

The HN discussion was indeed a disheartening mix of skepticism and criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4385241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4385241

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sidcool 12y ago
I chuckled reading some of the comments from armchair scientists. This gives me immense hope. For a big part of my life my decisions have been based on other peoples' judgement. Oddly, I feel personally vindicated.
- jobnobber 12y ago
  I'd say almost a third of HN comments are intentionally misleading or flat-out wrong. I've seen people include fake link citations to try and prove their point. Sadly, there are a huge number of phonies on HN. I'll bet many of them have enough karma to downvote too.
chdir 12y ago
There's an insane amount of cynicism and bitterness in that thread. I had to close the tab after a handful of comments.

hypertexthero 12y ago

> “When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” ― Jiddu Krishnamurti, [Freedom From the Known, Chapter 6][freedom] [freedom]: http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=48&chid=56789 http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-tex...

segmondy 12y ago
Please, stop with the philosophical garbage. I'm not Indian, but I'm proud of them and very happy for them. We at Hacker News tend to call ourselves hackers, programmers, techies, entrepreneurs, geeks, etc. Are we also being violent?
- gambiting 12y ago
  You can choose to become a programmer, but you can't choose to be born Indian. I imagine you would take offence if I said I am proud to be white? If people keep saying they are proud because of things they didn't choose, then that breeds social differences.
allpratik 12y ago
I agree with segmondy. Instead of classifying this news as Indian achievement, we should look forward to it as world's achievement.Surely those guys had it commendable work in such constrained resource! For me, it's new frontier in science...and boy it's cheap! More the affordability, more the chances of discoveries. Remember when a useful pricey thing becomes affordable without loosing usefulness then it's innovation!
allpratik 12y ago
I agree with segmondy. Instead of classifying this news as Indian achievement, we should look forward to it as world's achievement.Surely those guys had it commendable work in such constrained resource! For me, it's new frontier in science...and boy it's cheap! More the affordability, more the chances of discoveries. Remember when a useful pricey thing becomes affordable without loosing usefulness then it's an innovation!

iMuzz 12y ago

Being a part of the "entire internet community" I don't remember doing this.