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> if the US was somewhat less retarded in its immigration policies, we would've easily have been Americans. Serious question: Why? If Canada is so great, why

> if the US was somewhat less retarded in its immigration policies, we would've easily have been Americans. Serious question: Why? If Canada is so great, why the preference for the US? I hear these sorts of things all the time, yet everyone still wants to come to the US. I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle.

potatolicious 17y ago
Opportunity. Canadian universities, for example, do not hold a candle to the top-tier American schools. On average you guys are pretty, well, average in the realm of industrialized nations, but what the US is very good at is taking the high end of the bell curve and taking it even further. This is exemplified in the way the US does everything. Even the mere existence of this site is a profoundly American thing. Canadian entrepreneurs rarely cash out to the tune that Valley companies receive. The richest of the rich in Canada are poor compared to the extreme rich in the US. The best schools in the US kicks the shit out of the best schools in most other places (with a few notable exceptions, of course)... etc etc. The US is a country of extremes, and for many immigrants this is very attractive. This is particularly true for individuals who have already proven their ability to be better than the rest - America gives disproportionate rewards to the high end of the curve than more socialist countries (e.g. most of western Europe and Canada). At the risk of drawing in Randian thought (which really is the nouveau Godwin's Law), socialist countries restrict the rewards to the extremely talented, whereas America does no such thing (at a cost to the bottom half of its bell curve).
- jgrant27 17y ago
  > socialist countries restrict the rewards to the extremely talented, whereas America does no such thing (at a cost to the bottom half of its bell curve). This is just not the common case. Generally speaking, the US does give disproportionate rewards to the 'high-end' of the curve so to speak. However this often comes at a cost to everyone else(or the following generation) whether they realize it or not. It's simply harder to notice this happening when it's spread over a generation or two. Examples being health care, the economic pyramid schemes, 'education', care of veterans etc. Top tier American schools are highly-overrated and highly overpriced these days. They are a much bigger and slower bubble to burst over here. http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/ http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-el... I believe the key phrase in this article is "entitled mediocrity". The author also spent at least 25 years as a scholar and then Professor at Yale and Columbia. With all that being said, America is still a great place. It just might be better not to look for the rewards in all the popular places and using the popular methods.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    I didn't disagree with you :) My point that the US disproportionately rewards the high end of a curve was an observation as opposed to a value judgment. This has caused many social problems, and IMHO is the wrong way to run things. Nonetheless, for people who feel that they can profit much more in this environment (i.e. top-end-of-the-curve types) it's very attractive. "Top tier American schools are highly-overrated and highly overpriced these days." Perception, in this case, trumps reality. The reality is that a MIT degree is worth a hell of a lot more in salary than a random eastern European university. Whether or not the education truly is better is moot - people want in on the USA because it generally will lead to a better life than they've got now - assuming "now" is an underdeveloped country.
petewarden 17y ago
The US has has a lot of world-leading companies and enormous global mindshare as the default place to go and make a new life. So why worry? The fact that US culture has soured on immigration is starting to sink in, and other countries like Canada spotted the advantages of welcoming immigrants, which increases the chance that the next Google will be founded outside the US.
didip 17y ago
Image and global coverage. Finding out specific information about immigration, school system, job opportunities, or unemployment rate of a certain city in different country is very difficult. The land of opportunities image (plus global brand of top universities) have served the US well in bringing in immigrants, skilled or not. This kind of marketing gives partial and imperfect information but better than none. When I was 14, had I knew that Swedish universities do not charge tuition or Canada offers universal healthcare, my college choices would have been different.

potatolicious 17y ago

Opportunity. Canadian universities, for example, do not hold a candle to the top-tier American schools. On average you guys are pretty, well, average in the realm of industrialized nations, but what the US is very good at is taking the high end of the bell curve and taking it even further. This is exemplified in the way the US does everything. Even the mere existence of this site is a profoundly American thing. Canadian entrepreneurs rarely cash out to the tune that Valley companies receive. The richest of the rich in Canada are poor compared to the extreme rich in the US. The best schools in the US kicks the shit out of the best schools in most other places (with a few notable exceptions, of course)... etc etc. The US is a country of extremes, and for many immigrants this is very attractive. This is particularly true for individuals who have already proven their ability to be better than the rest - America gives disproportionate rewards to the high end of the curve than more socialist countries (e.g. most of western Europe and Canada). At the risk of drawing in Randian thought (which really is the nouveau Godwin's Law), socialist countries restrict the rewards to the extremely talented, whereas America does no such thing (at a cost to the bottom half of its bell curve).

jgrant27 17y ago
> socialist countries restrict the rewards to the extremely talented, whereas America does no such thing (at a cost to the bottom half of its bell curve). This is just not the common case. Generally speaking, the US does give disproportionate rewards to the 'high-end' of the curve so to speak. However this often comes at a cost to everyone else(or the following generation) whether they realize it or not. It's simply harder to notice this happening when it's spread over a generation or two. Examples being health care, the economic pyramid schemes, 'education', care of veterans etc. Top tier American schools are highly-overrated and highly overpriced these days. They are a much bigger and slower bubble to burst over here. http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/ http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-el... I believe the key phrase in this article is "entitled mediocrity". The author also spent at least 25 years as a scholar and then Professor at Yale and Columbia. With all that being said, America is still a great place. It just might be better not to look for the rewards in all the popular places and using the popular methods.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  I didn't disagree with you :) My point that the US disproportionately rewards the high end of a curve was an observation as opposed to a value judgment. This has caused many social problems, and IMHO is the wrong way to run things. Nonetheless, for people who feel that they can profit much more in this environment (i.e. top-end-of-the-curve types) it's very attractive. "Top tier American schools are highly-overrated and highly overpriced these days." Perception, in this case, trumps reality. The reality is that a MIT degree is worth a hell of a lot more in salary than a random eastern European university. Whether or not the education truly is better is moot - people want in on the USA because it generally will lead to a better life than they've got now - assuming "now" is an underdeveloped country.

petewarden 17y ago

The US has has a lot of world-leading companies and enormous global mindshare as the default place to go and make a new life. So why worry? The fact that US culture has soured on immigration is starting to sink in, and other countries like Canada spotted the advantages of welcoming immigrants, which increases the chance that the next Google will be founded outside the US.

didip 17y ago

Image and global coverage. Finding out specific information about immigration, school system, job opportunities, or unemployment rate of a certain city in different country is very difficult. The land of opportunities image (plus global brand of top universities) have served the US well in bringing in immigrants, skilled or not. This kind of marketing gives partial and imperfect information but better than none. When I was 14, had I knew that Swedish universities do not charge tuition or Canada offers universal healthcare, my college choices would have been different.