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That pamphlet makes for some scary reading, but is this typical of all of Germany? Perhaps some folks who are living in Germany can comment?

by kghose 12y ago

cyphunk 12y ago
I live in Berlin, Germany's largest city and most liberal(?) city, which is where the PDF is largely focused. The problem is that unlike a media-hyperbolic society such as the US where meme's travel fast, Germany is a bit more civil and people mostly mind their own business. This brings its own benefits and problems. The problem being that most citizens believe the state of discrimination to be what they have seen (as you will notice from many comments of Germans here and other places). When in-fact in a meme based society eventually stories of real discrimination would become more widely understood. When I talk to people here about the problem of discrimination in the education system few believe it at first. A stalwart all people here hold is that their education system is "great". The stats even for the general population, not accounting for different classes or races, brings that into stark question. Until you relay to them the stories then they start consider it more closely. Then they may start to see that the Gymnasium system meant to promote excellence is actually just a Cast system. Being that promotion to Gymnasium is dependent on a letter from a students teacher. If nothing else tacit discrimination a result of the natural psychology to favor the familiar helps found unfair results. Prior to the Information Era the Gymnasium / Hauptschule system had a function as professional labor was highly valued. This is no longer the case and not getting into a Gymnasium has stronger psychological effect than it would have before. This system, for this era, is discriminatory at its base. Consider The Pygmaliom Effect [1] (aka self-fulfilling prophesy) that proves measured aptitude is dependent on confidence and attention within the education system. Here in Germany you have a system that reaffirm the predefined bias against immigrants and you don't give them attention so they don't perform as well. At least in Berlin, there is evidence that teachers and headmasters of Gymnasiums are just blatantly racist. Consider the arguments some made against Affirmative Action for Gymnasium enrollment in 2011 [2]: Headmasters have objected, saying this type of policy would be "a disservice" to poor children, that they would not be able to keep up academically. The headmasters have also expressed concerns that children of working-class families would not feel welcome at gymnasien. Wolfgang Harnischfeger, headmaster of a well-known Berlin gymnasium, has stated: It can be noticed in children as young as kindergarten students, that children take after their parents. They emulate their language, their way of dressing, their way of spending their free time. Kids from Neukölln [a poor neighbourhood] would not feel good about themselves if they had to attend a type of school that mainly serves students from social classes different from their own. They will not be able to integrate. Every field day, every school party will show that". Effectively this headmaster is saying his school is racist so immigrants wont feel comfortable. The situation is not going to get better. In 2011 Berlin finally reformed their system requiring %30 of seats in Gymnasium be randomly selected. From any angle you look at it, this measure is too little and completely awkward. It doesn't address the ability of teachers to keep qualified students out by not giving them a letter. It doesn't deal with the structure in Gymnasiums that segregate children. It doesn't deal with the problem that very early in your life you are told whether you are worth of University or not. I feel most Europeans want to protect their idea that whatever problems they hear about in the US, that they don't have anything similar. It's convenient and comfortable but absolutely blind. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect#Rosenthal.E2.80.93Jacobson_study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect#Rosenthal.E2.... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_%28Germany%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_%28Germany%29

That pamphlet makes for some scary reading, but is this typical of all of Germany? Perhaps some folks who are living in Germany can comment?

by kghose 12y ago

That pamphlet makes for some scary reading, but is this typical of all of Germany? Perhaps some folks who are living in Germany can comment?

cyphunk 12y ago

I live in Berlin, Germany's largest city and most liberal(?) city, which is where the PDF is largely focused. The problem is that unlike a media-hyperbolic society such as the US where meme's travel fast, Germany is a bit more civil and people mostly mind their own business. This brings its own benefits and problems. The problem being that most citizens believe the state of discrimination to be what they have seen (as you will notice from many comments of Germans here and other places). When in-fact in a meme based society eventually stories of real discrimination would become more widely understood. When I talk to people here about the problem of discrimination in the education system few believe it at first. A stalwart all people here hold is that their education system is "great". The stats even for the general population, not accounting for different classes or races, brings that into stark question. Until you relay to them the stories then they start consider it more closely. Then they may start to see that the Gymnasium system meant to promote excellence is actually just a Cast system. Being that promotion to Gymnasium is dependent on a letter from a students teacher. If nothing else tacit discrimination a result of the natural psychology to favor the familiar helps found unfair results. Prior to the Information Era the Gymnasium / Hauptschule system had a function as professional labor was highly valued. This is no longer the case and not getting into a Gymnasium has stronger psychological effect than it would have before. This system, for this era, is discriminatory at its base. Consider The Pygmaliom Effect [1] (aka self-fulfilling prophesy) that proves measured aptitude is dependent on confidence and attention within the education system. Here in Germany you have a system that reaffirm the predefined bias against immigrants and you don't give them attention so they don't perform as well. At least in Berlin, there is evidence that teachers and headmasters of Gymnasiums are just blatantly racist. Consider the arguments some made against Affirmative Action for Gymnasium enrollment in 2011 [2]: Headmasters have objected, saying this type of policy would be "a disservice" to poor children, that they would not be able to keep up academically. The headmasters have also expressed concerns that children of working-class families would not feel welcome at gymnasien. Wolfgang Harnischfeger, headmaster of a well-known Berlin gymnasium, has stated: It can be noticed in children as young as kindergarten students, that children take after their parents. They emulate their language, their way of dressing, their way of spending their free time. Kids from Neukölln [a poor neighbourhood] would not feel good about themselves if they had to attend a type of school that mainly serves students from social classes different from their own. They will not be able to integrate. Every field day, every school party will show that". Effectively this headmaster is saying his school is racist so immigrants wont feel comfortable. The situation is not going to get better. In 2011 Berlin finally reformed their system requiring %30 of seats in Gymnasium be randomly selected. From any angle you look at it, this measure is too little and completely awkward. It doesn't address the ability of teachers to keep qualified students out by not giving them a letter. It doesn't deal with the structure in Gymnasiums that segregate children. It doesn't deal with the problem that very early in your life you are told whether you are worth of University or not. I feel most Europeans want to protect their idea that whatever problems they hear about in the US, that they don't have anything similar. It's convenient and comfortable but absolutely blind. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect#Rosenthal.E2.80.93Jacobson_study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect#Rosenthal.E2.... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_%28Germany%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_%28Germany%29