4 ms·

Let's be more general. Set A = stuff you can buy with USD. Set B = stuff you can buy with BTC. Set W = all stuff. Set A will always be a subset of set W, an

by awt 12y ago

Let's be more general. Set A = stuff you can buy with USD. Set B = stuff you can buy with BTC. Set W = all stuff. Set A will always be a subset of set W, and is getting to be a smaller subset every day. Set B will in the future be an exact match for Set W. Which unit of account would you choose? A or B? edited: typo (C instead of B)

danbruc 12y ago
Assuming you meant set B with set C - what makes you believe set B will match set W one day? Especially right now set B is incredible tiny compared to set A and there is not much incentive to switch to B which in turn makes it unlikely that set B will quickly converge to set W.
- awt 12y ago
  Most people don't yet understand how infungible the USD is becoming. Argentenians and Venezuelans understand the infungibility of their national currencies much better than Americans do theirs. Wealthy Americans and the wealthy of other nationalities who travel understand it better than those with little savings who are largely bound to their own states. Only big players and those on the fringes of society notice the problems with the USD right now. As more people leave the official economy every day, the fringes grow larger. The more the US clamps down on foreign banks holding USD, the less attractive the USD will be as a store of wealth.
  - danbruc 12y ago
    Isn't a currency fungible by definition - a dollar is a dollar is a dollar? And we are getting away from the question I asked - what are the advantages of using Bitcoins, advantages that average people actually care about today and that are not offset by disadvantages of using Bitcoins.
    - awt 12y ago
      Iran Sanctions: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/iran.aspx http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/p... Russia Sanctions: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sanctions/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sancti... Also, USD cash is more fungible than electronic USD.
    - markmassie 12y ago
      Again, why the focus on the average person? Does the average person actively, directly participate in space industry? No. Has the average person been profoundly affected by the technologies developed by space programs? Undeniably.
      - danbruc 12y ago
        Isn't this the whole goal of Bitcoin? Mass adoption so that you can use Bitcoin at least as easily as your credit card? You can obviously not have mass adoption without the average person. If, on the other hand, you only want Bitcoin as a curiosity used by a hand full of people, accepted by a hand full of business, well, this goal has already been reached.
  - notahacker 12y ago
    Funnily enough the Venezuelans and Argentinians solve the infungibility of their national currencies with US dollar-denominated offshore accounts. The US dollar is also the national currency of two other Latin American countries. Call me an extremist if you like, but I think the US is more likely to regulate Bitcoin into near irrelevance (guess what, AML laws can be applied to exchanges and Silicon Valley companies accepting BTC too!) than they are to make it difficult for Banco Central del Ecuador to replenish its dollar reserves. And Russian oligarchs facing sanctions are more likely to keep their money in Russian banks than in the crypocurrency their own government intends to ban http://rt.com/business/187440-bitcoin-ban-russia-cryptocurrency/ http://rt.com/business/187440-bitcoin-ban-russia-cryptocurre... How many people have left the informal economy to transact exclusively in Bitcoins?
    - awt 12y ago
      > US dollar-denominated ... Right because the USD is relatively more fungible for the time being. > regulate Bitcoin into near irrlevance That will just make dollars less fungible. The Russian oligarchs go to Bitcoin coferences. It's on their radar.
sillysaurus3 12y ago
A, until B has FDIC protections.
- natrius 12y ago
  You don't have to hold bitcoins to spend bitcoins and take advantage of the network's properties.
- aianus 12y ago
  Why would FDIC insurance make me feel safer than elliptic curve cryptography?
  - jarek 12y ago
    Because people who sell you food believe in FDIC
    - aianus 12y ago
      Slightly snarky but true retort: Soylent takes Bitcoin.
      - jarek 12y ago
        Cool, that only leaves people who provide supplies to Soylent, people who ship the Soylent to you, and your water utility :)
        aianus 12y ago
        Would you make fun of the Burundian Franc because I'd have to convert them into USD to pay my US suppliers? Not everyone has to directly accept Bitcoin for it to be a real currency and generally useful. The only difference with Bitcoin versus a small fiat currency is the people who are using it are distributed geographically worldwide instead of clumped together in one area. As long as they continue to prefer it to other currencies for some proportion of their transactions it will be successful and have value.

by awt 12y ago

danbruc 12y ago

Assuming you meant set B with set C - what makes you believe set B will match set W one day? Especially right now set B is incredible tiny compared to set A and there is not much incentive to switch to B which in turn makes it unlikely that set B will quickly converge to set W.

awt 12y ago
Most people don't yet understand how infungible the USD is becoming. Argentenians and Venezuelans understand the infungibility of their national currencies much better than Americans do theirs. Wealthy Americans and the wealthy of other nationalities who travel understand it better than those with little savings who are largely bound to their own states. Only big players and those on the fringes of society notice the problems with the USD right now. As more people leave the official economy every day, the fringes grow larger. The more the US clamps down on foreign banks holding USD, the less attractive the USD will be as a store of wealth.
- danbruc 12y ago
  Isn't a currency fungible by definition - a dollar is a dollar is a dollar? And we are getting away from the question I asked - what are the advantages of using Bitcoins, advantages that average people actually care about today and that are not offset by disadvantages of using Bitcoins.
  - awt 12y ago
    Iran Sanctions: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/iran.aspx http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/p... Russia Sanctions: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sanctions/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sancti... Also, USD cash is more fungible than electronic USD.
  - markmassie 12y ago
    Again, why the focus on the average person? Does the average person actively, directly participate in space industry? No. Has the average person been profoundly affected by the technologies developed by space programs? Undeniably.
    - danbruc 12y ago
      Isn't this the whole goal of Bitcoin? Mass adoption so that you can use Bitcoin at least as easily as your credit card? You can obviously not have mass adoption without the average person. If, on the other hand, you only want Bitcoin as a curiosity used by a hand full of people, accepted by a hand full of business, well, this goal has already been reached.
- notahacker 12y ago
  Funnily enough the Venezuelans and Argentinians solve the infungibility of their national currencies with US dollar-denominated offshore accounts. The US dollar is also the national currency of two other Latin American countries. Call me an extremist if you like, but I think the US is more likely to regulate Bitcoin into near irrelevance (guess what, AML laws can be applied to exchanges and Silicon Valley companies accepting BTC too!) than they are to make it difficult for Banco Central del Ecuador to replenish its dollar reserves. And Russian oligarchs facing sanctions are more likely to keep their money in Russian banks than in the crypocurrency their own government intends to ban http://rt.com/business/187440-bitcoin-ban-russia-cryptocurrency/ http://rt.com/business/187440-bitcoin-ban-russia-cryptocurre... How many people have left the informal economy to transact exclusively in Bitcoins?
  - awt 12y ago
    > US dollar-denominated ... Right because the USD is relatively more fungible for the time being. > regulate Bitcoin into near irrlevance That will just make dollars less fungible. The Russian oligarchs go to Bitcoin coferences. It's on their radar.

sillysaurus3 12y ago

A, until B has FDIC protections.

natrius 12y ago
You don't have to hold bitcoins to spend bitcoins and take advantage of the network's properties.
aianus 12y ago
Why would FDIC insurance make me feel safer than elliptic curve cryptography?
- jarek 12y ago
  Because people who sell you food believe in FDIC
  - aianus 12y ago
    Slightly snarky but true retort: Soylent takes Bitcoin.
    - jarek 12y ago
      Cool, that only leaves people who provide supplies to Soylent, people who ship the Soylent to you, and your water utility :)
      - aianus 12y ago
        Would you make fun of the Burundian Franc because I'd have to convert them into USD to pay my US suppliers? Not everyone has to directly accept Bitcoin for it to be a real currency and generally useful. The only difference with Bitcoin versus a small fiat currency is the people who are using it are distributed geographically worldwide instead of clumped together in one area. As long as they continue to prefer it to other currencies for some proportion of their transactions it will be successful and have value.