6 ms·

My former boss (CTO of Panasonic) once told me that the only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D. E

My former boss (CTO of Panasonic) once told me that the only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D. Everyone else was doing just product development. Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development.

cbhl 12y ago
What about Microsoft Research?
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  http://www.eweek.com/it-management/microsoft-lays-off-2100-closes-research-lab.html http://www.eweek.com/it-management/microsoft-lays-off-2100-c... what about them?
  - cwyers 12y ago
    According to your link, there were 75 people at that lab. Microsoft Research has over 800 people: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/catalog/default.aspx?t=people http://research.microsoft.com/apps/catalog/default.aspx?t=pe...
  - Encosia 12y ago
    That headline is confusingly worded, but Microsoft only laid off 50-75 people in one MSR location. That was far from the entire division: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/labs/default.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/labs/default.aspx
    - layman 12y ago
      That's not all. There are other parts being shutdown too - Robotics apparently https://twitter.com/AshleyFen/status/513392391467048960 https://twitter.com/AshleyFen/status/513392391467048960
      - com2kid 12y ago
        Well that's the second time then! I was working with the Robotics team when they got seriously downsized a few years ago. (This might be a different robotics team, who knows!)
      - Encosia 12y ago
        Still, probably proportionally less layoffs in MSR than the rest of the company overall during these cuts. The insinuation was that Microsoft is shuttering Research entirely, which is very far from true.
        dsuth 12y ago
        I think the insinuation is the Microsoft Research is beholden to business drivers, and therefore not truly 'free, blue-sky' research. That doesn't seem unfair, given the layoffs.
        Encosia 12y ago
        I read the comment "what about them?" along with the poorly headlined link, as insinuating that Microsoft Research was being shut down. If someone thought that Silicon Valley was their main lab or didn't know either way, that headline would easily give the mistaken impression that Microsoft was canning the whole endeavor. My apologies to rasz_pl if I mistook his/her meaning. For what it's worth, MSR historically hasn't been beholden to find commercial applications for their work. If anything, it's usually disappointing how much really cool stuff they come up with that isn't ever productized in an accessible way.
turnip1979 12y ago
I heard an old timer describe it well ... true research needs to be altruistic. Today, I think this can only be done through govt sponsorship. In places like Canada, my impression is that even the stewards who dole out govt funding have forgotten what true research means. They dole out money for commercializing innovation, which is not research by definition. From what I've heard from other scientists, the US is doing a better job. They are focusing their research dollars on 'promising' areas. This isn't as bluesky but at least it is research.
- dsuth 12y ago
  That would be the point of government investment in research though - to drive commercial advantage in their country. Everyone in governmenthas an agenda; there's no free money. That leaves insanely wealthy companies or individuals with an altruistic bent to drive free research.
tdaltonc 12y ago
>only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D This idea is from Joseph Schumpeter. The same guy who coined the phrase "creative destruction."
mindcrime 12y ago
> Everyone else is just doing product development. I believe IBM still does quite a bit of fundamental research as well.
shas3 12y ago
> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich, Microsoft Research, traditional pharma companies, traditional chemicals/materials companies, GE Global Research, etc. all have 'blueskies' agendas to varying extents.
- julianpye 12y ago
  Just because there are research labs, it doesn't mean that they are doing truly free blue-sky research. Lots of the labs you mention have very antiquated IPR focus, especially Mitsubishi and IBM. And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab.
  - shas3 12y ago
    If nothing, at least IBM's radio astronomy effort should count as 'bluesky' research literally and figuratively speaking, https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37361.wss https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37361.wss
  - Animats 12y ago
    Re: "And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab." It does look that way. You drive in the front gate, and go along a winding road through pastures for about half a mile before reaching the big glass buildings on a hilltop overlooking a huge park. The view from the cafeteria is spectacular. That's what people thought research centers should be like in the 1960s. Today, it's a shadow of what it once was. I happened to be there the day IBM exited the disk drive business. Major layoffs followed. It's sad. IBM employees have won five Nobel Prizes. The last one was in 1987.
  - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
    If IBM's Watson does not count as "free blue-sky" AI research, I don't know what else counts. http://youtu.be/P18EdAKuC1U?t=2m20s http://youtu.be/P18EdAKuC1U?t=2m20s https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=an+account+of+the+principalities+of+wallachia+and+moldavia+inspired+this+author's+famous+novel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=an+acco... Funnily, Google completes my phrase "an account of the principalities of wallachia and moldavia inspired this author's famous novel" but is completely clueless. As the other poster said, Google seems to be winning the advertising game (after all that is how they make $).
stephenmm 12y ago
Oracle's Labs division does a mix of fundamental research and very long term product development. One way to tell how much fundamental research a company is doing is to see how much partnering they do with universities and DAPRA, although not all companies may advertise much about these partnerships.

cbhl 12y ago

What about Microsoft Research?

rasz_pl 12y ago
http://www.eweek.com/it-management/microsoft-lays-off-2100-closes-research-lab.html http://www.eweek.com/it-management/microsoft-lays-off-2100-c... what about them?
- cwyers 12y ago
  According to your link, there were 75 people at that lab. Microsoft Research has over 800 people: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/catalog/default.aspx?t=people http://research.microsoft.com/apps/catalog/default.aspx?t=pe...
- Encosia 12y ago
  That headline is confusingly worded, but Microsoft only laid off 50-75 people in one MSR location. That was far from the entire division: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/labs/default.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/labs/default.aspx
  - layman 12y ago
    That's not all. There are other parts being shutdown too - Robotics apparently https://twitter.com/AshleyFen/status/513392391467048960 https://twitter.com/AshleyFen/status/513392391467048960
    - com2kid 12y ago
      Well that's the second time then! I was working with the Robotics team when they got seriously downsized a few years ago. (This might be a different robotics team, who knows!)
    - Encosia 12y ago
      Still, probably proportionally less layoffs in MSR than the rest of the company overall during these cuts. The insinuation was that Microsoft is shuttering Research entirely, which is very far from true.
      - dsuth 12y ago
        I think the insinuation is the Microsoft Research is beholden to business drivers, and therefore not truly 'free, blue-sky' research. That doesn't seem unfair, given the layoffs.
        Encosia 12y ago
        I read the comment "what about them?" along with the poorly headlined link, as insinuating that Microsoft Research was being shut down. If someone thought that Silicon Valley was their main lab or didn't know either way, that headline would easily give the mistaken impression that Microsoft was canning the whole endeavor. My apologies to rasz_pl if I mistook his/her meaning. For what it's worth, MSR historically hasn't been beholden to find commercial applications for their work. If anything, it's usually disappointing how much really cool stuff they come up with that isn't ever productized in an accessible way.

turnip1979 12y ago

I heard an old timer describe it well ... true research needs to be altruistic. Today, I think this can only be done through govt sponsorship. In places like Canada, my impression is that even the stewards who dole out govt funding have forgotten what true research means. They dole out money for commercializing innovation, which is not research by definition. From what I've heard from other scientists, the US is doing a better job. They are focusing their research dollars on 'promising' areas. This isn't as bluesky but at least it is research.

dsuth 12y ago
That would be the point of government investment in research though - to drive commercial advantage in their country. Everyone in governmenthas an agenda; there's no free money. That leaves insanely wealthy companies or individuals with an altruistic bent to drive free research.

tdaltonc 12y ago

>only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D This idea is from Joseph Schumpeter. The same guy who coined the phrase "creative destruction."

mindcrime 12y ago

> Everyone else is just doing product development. I believe IBM still does quite a bit of fundamental research as well.

shas3 12y ago

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich, Microsoft Research, traditional pharma companies, traditional chemicals/materials companies, GE Global Research, etc. all have 'blueskies' agendas to varying extents.

julianpye 12y ago
Just because there are research labs, it doesn't mean that they are doing truly free blue-sky research. Lots of the labs you mention have very antiquated IPR focus, especially Mitsubishi and IBM. And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab.
- shas3 12y ago
  If nothing, at least IBM's radio astronomy effort should count as 'bluesky' research literally and figuratively speaking, https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37361.wss https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37361.wss
- Animats 12y ago
  Re: "And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab." It does look that way. You drive in the front gate, and go along a winding road through pastures for about half a mile before reaching the big glass buildings on a hilltop overlooking a huge park. The view from the cafeteria is spectacular. That's what people thought research centers should be like in the 1960s. Today, it's a shadow of what it once was. I happened to be there the day IBM exited the disk drive business. Major layoffs followed. It's sad. IBM employees have won five Nobel Prizes. The last one was in 1987.
- cscurmudgeon 12y ago
  If IBM's Watson does not count as "free blue-sky" AI research, I don't know what else counts. http://youtu.be/P18EdAKuC1U?t=2m20s http://youtu.be/P18EdAKuC1U?t=2m20s https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=an+account+of+the+principalities+of+wallachia+and+moldavia+inspired+this+author's+famous+novel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=an+acco... Funnily, Google completes my phrase "an account of the principalities of wallachia and moldavia inspired this author's famous novel" but is completely clueless. As the other poster said, Google seems to be winning the advertising game (after all that is how they make $).

stephenmm 12y ago

Oracle's Labs division does a mix of fundamental research and very long term product development. One way to tell how much fundamental research a company is doing is to see how much partnering they do with universities and DAPRA, although not all companies may advertise much about these partnerships.