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Why should any insider do that? Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. Sad truth is, the majority don't care. If they did, then it would be reflected

by alan_cx 12y ago

Why should any insider do that? Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. Sad truth is, the majority don't care. If they did, then it would be reflected in voting, and things would change. But no. Mean while, Snowden is a wanted man in exile. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this one little bit, but it seems I'm in a minority.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. "Nothing" understates the impact. Sure, no one insider's revelations alone will suffice to radically change the situation, but, to borrow a Medieval adaptation of a classical aphorism, gutta cavet lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo.
- damon_c 12y ago
  For my fellow uneducated hackers: "a water drop hollows a stone not by force, but by falling often"
  - eric_h 12y ago
    I know you're just being cheeky, but I don't believe that "knowing latin" == "educated", same for its corollary.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      It's the other way; si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
      - innguest 12y ago
        Siue, nimium linguam latinam diligis. Eruditio nunc mera charta est.
        JetSpiegel 12y ago
        Hackers eunt domus!
    - atlantic 12y ago
      Knowing Latin may not be identical to having an education. But without Latin, you simply do not have access to over a millennium of pre-Enlightenment written material, which may seriously warp your view of Western culture.
- declan 12y ago
  To inject a bit of realpolitik from this morning's news: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/techs-surveillance-hopes-stopped-in-their-tracks-111228.html http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/techs-surveillance-hop... "The Senate fled Washington last week without taking action on a bill to rein in the National Security Agency’s bulk data collection, a measure that topped the industry’s agenda after Edward Snowden’s leaks about the NSA’s expansive snooping programs..."
johnchristopher 12y ago
Because it's going to take years and many more Manning and Snowden to fix things. It's not going to happen over one leak, one scandal or one occupation movement. There are no magic wands or easy solutions that would allow us to fold it over the weekend and be home in time to catch up some TV shows on Netflix. Let's remember that it took years for the Vietnam anti-war movement or the peace talks in Ireland to gain traction and it still was a messy road. edit: grammar&typo
a3n 12y ago
The difference is that we on the outside now know, cannot claim ignorance, and are therefore responsible.
eli 12y ago
Reforms don't happen overnight.
rdtsc 12y ago
I can see 2 major things happened. One good and one bad. 1) The bad is that the average person didn't seem to be outraged enough to do anything or they were outraged but incapable of doing anything. That is not even the bad part. The bad part is that NSA and others have learned that even with such obvious things people are powerless. They will likely ramp up their capabilities in the future. 2) The good thing is that we are discussing it and some who create and are knowledgeable about security and technology have started developing and enhancing their tools. Because a lot of the techniques are open now. We can defend better from them. Sometimes tools created by a few can be used by the large population. That is a nice side effects. Notice "us" vs "them". I think that is how "they" see the situation and how we should see it. It is a war between the American public and the NSA so to speak. It is important to keep this adversarial position because the other side already has that position. It is also important to mention NSA is not monolithic and talking about "it" vs "us" is not quite accurate. Many decisions are probably made based on bureaucratic concerns -- sunk costs, contractor kickbacks and so on, rather than some inherent evil conspiratorial cabal. But for the propaganda domain, I think it is effective in portraying it that way. Because looking at its behavior as a whole it kind of exhibits those traits.
tedks 12y ago
>Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. Sad truth is, the majority don't care. If they did, then it would be reflected in voting, and things would change. But no. Mean while, Snowden is a wanted man in exile. Publicly, that is all that happened. Within the NSA, I imagine there was quite a bit of upheaval. Most importantly, the entire system was redesigned so as to prevent the same thing from happening again. If you read Julian Assange's early essays State and Terrorist Conspiracies, you'll see the inspiration for Wikileaks and the explanation of the strategic and tactical value of leaking: It breaks the bonds of trust within state organizations, preventing them from starting and executing programs their conspiracies (anything within the NSA is by definition a conspiracy; security clearances are conspiracies writ large). Imagine the impact if the NSA became mistrustful of itself! Truly it is a vision worth leaking for.
nl 12y ago
Read Assange's writing on how leaks and the threat of leaks destroy the efficiency of the state security apparatus. The game is much longer that a couple of individual leakers.

by alan_cx 12y ago

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. "Nothing" understates the impact. Sure, no one insider's revelations alone will suffice to radically change the situation, but, to borrow a Medieval adaptation of a classical aphorism, gutta cavet lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo.

damon_c 12y ago
For my fellow uneducated hackers: "a water drop hollows a stone not by force, but by falling often"
- eric_h 12y ago
  I know you're just being cheeky, but I don't believe that "knowing latin" == "educated", same for its corollary.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    It's the other way; si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
    - innguest 12y ago
      Siue, nimium linguam latinam diligis. Eruditio nunc mera charta est.
      - JetSpiegel 12y ago
        Hackers eunt domus!
  - atlantic 12y ago
    Knowing Latin may not be identical to having an education. But without Latin, you simply do not have access to over a millennium of pre-Enlightenment written material, which may seriously warp your view of Western culture.
declan 12y ago
To inject a bit of realpolitik from this morning's news: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/techs-surveillance-hopes-stopped-in-their-tracks-111228.html http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/techs-surveillance-hop... "The Senate fled Washington last week without taking action on a bill to rein in the National Security Agency’s bulk data collection, a measure that topped the industry’s agenda after Edward Snowden’s leaks about the NSA’s expansive snooping programs..."

johnchristopher 12y ago

Because it's going to take years and many more Manning and Snowden to fix things. It's not going to happen over one leak, one scandal or one occupation movement. There are no magic wands or easy solutions that would allow us to fold it over the weekend and be home in time to catch up some TV shows on Netflix. Let's remember that it took years for the Vietnam anti-war movement or the peace talks in Ireland to gain traction and it still was a messy road. edit: grammar&typo

a3n 12y ago

The difference is that we on the outside now know, cannot claim ignorance, and are therefore responsible.

eli 12y ago

Reforms don't happen overnight.

rdtsc 12y ago

I can see 2 major things happened. One good and one bad. 1) The bad is that the average person didn't seem to be outraged enough to do anything or they were outraged but incapable of doing anything. That is not even the bad part. The bad part is that NSA and others have learned that even with such obvious things people are powerless. They will likely ramp up their capabilities in the future. 2) The good thing is that we are discussing it and some who create and are knowledgeable about security and technology have started developing and enhancing their tools. Because a lot of the techniques are open now. We can defend better from them. Sometimes tools created by a few can be used by the large population. That is a nice side effects. Notice "us" vs "them". I think that is how "they" see the situation and how we should see it. It is a war between the American public and the NSA so to speak. It is important to keep this adversarial position because the other side already has that position. It is also important to mention NSA is not monolithic and talking about "it" vs "us" is not quite accurate. Many decisions are probably made based on bureaucratic concerns -- sunk costs, contractor kickbacks and so on, rather than some inherent evil conspiratorial cabal. But for the propaganda domain, I think it is effective in portraying it that way. Because looking at its behavior as a whole it kind of exhibits those traits.

tedks 12y ago

>Snowden did it, and look what happened. Nothing. Sad truth is, the majority don't care. If they did, then it would be reflected in voting, and things would change. But no. Mean while, Snowden is a wanted man in exile. Publicly, that is all that happened. Within the NSA, I imagine there was quite a bit of upheaval. Most importantly, the entire system was redesigned so as to prevent the same thing from happening again. If you read Julian Assange's early essays State and Terrorist Conspiracies, you'll see the inspiration for Wikileaks and the explanation of the strategic and tactical value of leaking: It breaks the bonds of trust within state organizations, preventing them from starting and executing programs their conspiracies (anything within the NSA is by definition a conspiracy; security clearances are conspiracies writ large). Imagine the impact if the NSA became mistrustful of itself! Truly it is a vision worth leaking for.

nl 12y ago

Read Assange's writing on how leaks and the threat of leaks destroy the efficiency of the state security apparatus. The game is much longer that a couple of individual leakers.