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The first response to Chernobyl was heroic. Fire fighters later died from acute radiation poisoning. But would it really surprise you if the Soviet leaders did

The first response to Chernobyl was heroic. Fire fighters later died from acute radiation poisoning. But would it really surprise you if the Soviet leaders did as "pilsetnieks" wrote and forced people to get high radiation doses without telling them? Russia have outstanding traditions in e.g. math, literature, art and engineering. That is not diminished by Russian leaders' traditions of enslaving Russians (and others).

bussiere 12y ago
Yeah bit of both as usuals but the first as engineers know what they risked. As any dramaticals events you had stupidy , petty arrangements, manipulations and heroism. Still glad for the heroism of the first people on this event.
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  The first people there certainly knew what they were facing, and they knew the risks. The rest - not so much. People were gathered from the streets, from their homes and their workplaces. None were told what they were about to face, none were allowed to talk to anyone back home, and none were allowed to leave when they got there. All in all, there was a handful of people who really knew the risks and who truly, heroically sacrificed themselves. Then there were some volunteers, and then there were masses of involuntary laborers who were told that they should take a few charcoal tablets a day and they'll be fine. About 600 000 people were involved in the liquidation effort. Surely you cannot believe that they were all Soviet heroes, or volunteers for a cause no one actually was told about at the time. You don't need to hope for volunteers in a totalitarian regime if you can just gather any able-bodied man you can find.
  - mlvljr 12y ago
    Grabbed in the streets and thrown into radiation-glowing ruines? Not to much to believe only for someone who hates Soviet from the very depth of his heart, I suspect, sorry :)
  - huhtenberg 12y ago
    > People were gathered from the streets, from their homes and their workplaces. Please do us all a favor, don't smoke that ever again.
mlvljr 12y ago
Kind thanks, but regardless of who's meant by the "others", I feel obliged to point that our leaders' "Western partners" did quite a stellar job in that department, too. Speaking of the Ch. episode, while there were definitely criminal decisions involved (local people not being told what exactly happened, and thus exposed to huge risks), what "pilsetnieks" does is spreading "клюква", I believe.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  > [Western world enslaved countries] Ah, that is why USA had to build a wall to stop people fleeing to the freedom of East Europe? :-) Edit: On the other subject -- I can't find much on Wikipedia at all about the construction of the sarcophagus.
  - mlvljr 12y ago
    You would not find any "slaves" to the the east of that wall, still -- but look at the pre-60-ies Africa, for example, that was much closer. Speaking of the sarcophagus, I'd start looking into the memoirs of both those in charge back then, and those in actual action down there (both kinds of sources will likely be not available in translation though).
    - BugBrother 12y ago
      I am sorry, but your description of East Europe is complete bullshit. I assume you're Russian? Only Germans seem to learn about their own country's atrocities in school/media. (I'll add Russia to the list of Turkey, Pakistan, Japan, ...) A brutal dictatorship, as Putin seem to work towards, means that the controlling junta can treat the people as their own property. As I wrote: If you have to lock people up to stop them from fleeing -- and the guards even shoot on sight! -- it shows the relationship; leaving is theft of valuable property, i.e. a slavery situation. I have worked in Romania and have read/heard about how the spine of the people were broken and how they were controlled. For example: There were some German speaking people since the Middle Ages in Transylvania. The adults were sent to Siberia. The broken survivors did get home, years later... Another example: Political prisoners (but at least not "criminals" which had just refused to sign over their land to the Party), were just not going to survive prison. And so on. (Pre-60s Africa, during colonialism? Well, that is at least different compared to the usual Soviet argument of blacks in USA. :-) )

bussiere 12y ago

Yeah bit of both as usuals but the first as engineers know what they risked. As any dramaticals events you had stupidy , petty arrangements, manipulations and heroism. Still glad for the heroism of the first people on this event.

pilsetnieks 12y ago
The first people there certainly knew what they were facing, and they knew the risks. The rest - not so much. People were gathered from the streets, from their homes and their workplaces. None were told what they were about to face, none were allowed to talk to anyone back home, and none were allowed to leave when they got there. All in all, there was a handful of people who really knew the risks and who truly, heroically sacrificed themselves. Then there were some volunteers, and then there were masses of involuntary laborers who were told that they should take a few charcoal tablets a day and they'll be fine. About 600 000 people were involved in the liquidation effort. Surely you cannot believe that they were all Soviet heroes, or volunteers for a cause no one actually was told about at the time. You don't need to hope for volunteers in a totalitarian regime if you can just gather any able-bodied man you can find.
- mlvljr 12y ago
  Grabbed in the streets and thrown into radiation-glowing ruines? Not to much to believe only for someone who hates Soviet from the very depth of his heart, I suspect, sorry :)
- huhtenberg 12y ago
  > People were gathered from the streets, from their homes and their workplaces. Please do us all a favor, don't smoke that ever again.

mlvljr 12y ago

Kind thanks, but regardless of who's meant by the "others", I feel obliged to point that our leaders' "Western partners" did quite a stellar job in that department, too. Speaking of the Ch. episode, while there were definitely criminal decisions involved (local people not being told what exactly happened, and thus exposed to huge risks), what "pilsetnieks" does is spreading "клюква", I believe.

BugBrother 12y ago
> [Western world enslaved countries] Ah, that is why USA had to build a wall to stop people fleeing to the freedom of East Europe? :-) Edit: On the other subject -- I can't find much on Wikipedia at all about the construction of the sarcophagus.
- mlvljr 12y ago
  You would not find any "slaves" to the the east of that wall, still -- but look at the pre-60-ies Africa, for example, that was much closer. Speaking of the sarcophagus, I'd start looking into the memoirs of both those in charge back then, and those in actual action down there (both kinds of sources will likely be not available in translation though).
  - BugBrother 12y ago
    I am sorry, but your description of East Europe is complete bullshit. I assume you're Russian? Only Germans seem to learn about their own country's atrocities in school/media. (I'll add Russia to the list of Turkey, Pakistan, Japan, ...) A brutal dictatorship, as Putin seem to work towards, means that the controlling junta can treat the people as their own property. As I wrote: If you have to lock people up to stop them from fleeing -- and the guards even shoot on sight! -- it shows the relationship; leaving is theft of valuable property, i.e. a slavery situation. I have worked in Romania and have read/heard about how the spine of the people were broken and how they were controlled. For example: There were some German speaking people since the Middle Ages in Transylvania. The adults were sent to Siberia. The broken survivors did get home, years later... Another example: Political prisoners (but at least not "criminals" which had just refused to sign over their land to the Party), were just not going to survive prison. And so on. (Pre-60s Africa, during colonialism? Well, that is at least different compared to the usual Soviet argument of blacks in USA. :-) )