3 ms·

we are at our early stages, we can not yet afford supporting any (even popular) browser. Though Opera SUPPORT is planned to be far earlier than IE support ;)

by yrashk 19y ago

jgrahamc 19y ago
That seems like a silly decision to me. Unless you can be sure that your target market is Firefox/Safari then I think you could be cutting yourself off from a big customer base. Personally, I use Firefox on my Mac, but there are _lots_ of people out there that are still using IE, and will probably "still" be using IE for a long time because they are on Windows. Secondly, I was surprised to see that you _force_ people to use OpenID to authenticate with your web site. It's a pity there isn't a classic login/password solution since you force me to go get an OpenID (I don't have one yet), and since I'm a nerd you are delaying me using your site because I need to investigate this whole OpenID thing.
- DarrenStuart 19y ago
  slightly off topic but I agree. In this day and age it should work on the 3 main browsers from day 1. Opera should work if this is the case.
  - BitGeek 19y ago
    Opera is not one of the three main browsers. The three main browsers are, in order, IE, Firefox and Safari. Personally, I don't use Opera or one of the three main browsers most of the time, so I periodically run into a site that tells me they don't support my browser, in which case I switch browsers. I don't expect everyone to cater to my whim all the time.
- jdavid 19y ago
  I disagree, when you are a startup you are also creating a culture, and you need to manage it. Firefox is by far the easiest browser to develop for. Firebug, makes it so damn painless. Ec2, and S3 now have plug-ins for Firefox. I always develop for Firefox first. I tend to figure that if someone is using IE6 or IE7, and the browser is buggy, its microsoft's problem and not mine. I do not have time to hack javascript and css that is out of spec. Safari and Opera often times work when Firefox does, but usually have different defaults for padding, boarders, forms, fonts, and margins just a bit differently which can all be handled withing the bounds of normal css and javascript. IE on the other hand, is a mess, and breaks rules all of the time. Not only that but the culture of the IE team is to not fix the problem, but to create new HTML features so that you can branch between browser versions. The culture behind the IE team is all wrong. I hate developing Google Gadgets for IE because Google will not let you publish your gadget iFrame in xhtml strict for which most browsers come close to rendering the same. As far as the OpenID thing goes, it was also easier to support than a registration system for users, and it encourages a certain culture for the site. I myself do not like OpenID, as it is based on HTML redirect protocols, and not something that works well for applications. OpenSocial is better for authenticating application permission for a given user, but it still seems lacking on API consistency, OpenSocial is going to be an API arms race, like IE and Mozilla are in the browser market. Also for our app, we would much rather support enviroments like the Mac, iPhone, and treo 700p than IE, based on the audience we are trying to reach.
  - edw519 19y ago
    "Also for our app, we would much rather support enviroments like the Mac, iPhone, and treo 700p than IE, based on the audience we are trying to reach." Sure hope you have a fertile niche and you master it well. You better, since you're discounting 70% of the population.
    - BitGeek 19y ago
      This is actually a very wise strategy...after all its the early adopters who generate buzz and better guide product development.
  - jamiequint 19y ago
    "I tend to figure that if someone is using IE6 or IE7, and the browser is buggy, its microsoft's problem and not mine. I do not have time to hack javascript and css that is out of spec." IE CSS and JS is annoying but with this attitude you are just screwing yourself.
    - jdavid 19y ago
      On the sites I tend to create, Firefox usages is above 50%. Safari is like 10% And the site looks OK in IE7, but is not a pixel match to Firefox at all. I will usually let things like margins and padding slip a bit, its not like the site is totaly broken, i just do not develop for IE or spend any significant time optimizing it outside of CSS or Javascript spec. If something does not work in IE i usually ask if its worth doing, because I have spent way to many days chasing rabbit holes in that stupid browser.
- imsteve 19y ago
  > Unless you can be sure that your target market is Firefox/Safari Actually this is fantastically easy to measure. Are you kidding? And I think we were talking about opera.

we are at our early stages, we can not yet afford supporting any (even popular) browser. Though Opera SUPPORT is planned to be far earlier than IE support ;)

by yrashk 19y ago

we are at our early stages, we can not yet afford supporting any (even popular) browser. Though Opera SUPPORT is planned to be far earlier than IE support ;)

jgrahamc 19y ago

That seems like a silly decision to me. Unless you can be sure that your target market is Firefox/Safari then I think you could be cutting yourself off from a big customer base. Personally, I use Firefox on my Mac, but there are _lots_ of people out there that are still using IE, and will probably "still" be using IE for a long time because they are on Windows. Secondly, I was surprised to see that you _force_ people to use OpenID to authenticate with your web site. It's a pity there isn't a classic login/password solution since you force me to go get an OpenID (I don't have one yet), and since I'm a nerd you are delaying me using your site because I need to investigate this whole OpenID thing.

DarrenStuart 19y ago
slightly off topic but I agree. In this day and age it should work on the 3 main browsers from day 1. Opera should work if this is the case.
- BitGeek 19y ago
  Opera is not one of the three main browsers. The three main browsers are, in order, IE, Firefox and Safari. Personally, I don't use Opera or one of the three main browsers most of the time, so I periodically run into a site that tells me they don't support my browser, in which case I switch browsers. I don't expect everyone to cater to my whim all the time.
jdavid 19y ago
I disagree, when you are a startup you are also creating a culture, and you need to manage it. Firefox is by far the easiest browser to develop for. Firebug, makes it so damn painless. Ec2, and S3 now have plug-ins for Firefox. I always develop for Firefox first. I tend to figure that if someone is using IE6 or IE7, and the browser is buggy, its microsoft's problem and not mine. I do not have time to hack javascript and css that is out of spec. Safari and Opera often times work when Firefox does, but usually have different defaults for padding, boarders, forms, fonts, and margins just a bit differently which can all be handled withing the bounds of normal css and javascript. IE on the other hand, is a mess, and breaks rules all of the time. Not only that but the culture of the IE team is to not fix the problem, but to create new HTML features so that you can branch between browser versions. The culture behind the IE team is all wrong. I hate developing Google Gadgets for IE because Google will not let you publish your gadget iFrame in xhtml strict for which most browsers come close to rendering the same. As far as the OpenID thing goes, it was also easier to support than a registration system for users, and it encourages a certain culture for the site. I myself do not like OpenID, as it is based on HTML redirect protocols, and not something that works well for applications. OpenSocial is better for authenticating application permission for a given user, but it still seems lacking on API consistency, OpenSocial is going to be an API arms race, like IE and Mozilla are in the browser market. Also for our app, we would much rather support enviroments like the Mac, iPhone, and treo 700p than IE, based on the audience we are trying to reach.
- edw519 19y ago
  "Also for our app, we would much rather support enviroments like the Mac, iPhone, and treo 700p than IE, based on the audience we are trying to reach." Sure hope you have a fertile niche and you master it well. You better, since you're discounting 70% of the population.
  - BitGeek 19y ago
    This is actually a very wise strategy...after all its the early adopters who generate buzz and better guide product development.
- jamiequint 19y ago
  "I tend to figure that if someone is using IE6 or IE7, and the browser is buggy, its microsoft's problem and not mine. I do not have time to hack javascript and css that is out of spec." IE CSS and JS is annoying but with this attitude you are just screwing yourself.
  - jdavid 19y ago
    On the sites I tend to create, Firefox usages is above 50%. Safari is like 10% And the site looks OK in IE7, but is not a pixel match to Firefox at all. I will usually let things like margins and padding slip a bit, its not like the site is totaly broken, i just do not develop for IE or spend any significant time optimizing it outside of CSS or Javascript spec. If something does not work in IE i usually ask if its worth doing, because I have spent way to many days chasing rabbit holes in that stupid browser.
imsteve 19y ago
> Unless you can be sure that your target market is Firefox/Safari Actually this is fantastically easy to measure. Are you kidding? And I think we were talking about opera.