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I'm not an expert on creating reliable electronics, but the new iOS connector is just a "tongue", whereas this new type-c connector is a "hole" that accepts a "

by drcode 12y ago

I'm not an expert on creating reliable electronics, but the new iOS connector is just a "tongue", whereas this new type-c connector is a "hole" that accepts a "tongue", and the plug the type-c connector fits in is a "tongue" that accepts a "hole" that contains a "tongue" (sorry for the simplistic terminology) Surely, this is going lead to a whole new generation of loose, flaky cable connections, just as with the previous USB connectors (and unlike the new iOS connectors, which never seem to lead to loose connections)

azernik 12y ago
Doesn't seem so. Looking at the pictures, the design seems to consist of a receptable which looks like a Lightning connector with a piece of shielding around it, and a plug which looks like a Lightning receptable. If anything, it's mechanically close to Lightning than to the current USB connector, so there's no reason to assume that it will have bad connection.
Igglyboo 12y ago
FYI: The correct terminology for "tongue" would be male and "hole" is female.
- gatehouse 12y ago
  I'm not sure this is what parent^ is referring to. The "male" USB is box-shaped, and the "female" USB has the interior protrusion (with the pins on it) and then the larger slot. The apple lightning cable is just a tab that goes in a hole. Similar to a barrel power connector versus a headphone plug.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Yea but the male usb still goes inside the female. It's really crude but the designations are supposed to mirror human reproductive organs, male goes inside of female.
i_am_ralpht 12y ago
Anecdotally, the Lightning cable seems to be a bit flaky itself, getting 1.5 stars from 1646 reviews on Apple's store: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb... Hopefully Type C will be better than Micro-B and Lightning. Also, Type C can deliver 100W of power, which I'm not sure Lightning could do...
- jacobolus 12y ago
  The only people who ever review items like cables are ones who ran into failures, so that’s a very skewed sampling.
  - pbreit 12y ago
    No, the negative reviews on Lightning cables mostly have to do with people complaining they have to buy new cables.
  - briandh 12y ago
    Online product reviews have self-selection bias, yes, but it is not true that cables are reviewed only or even mostly by people who were not satisfied. For example, on Amazon we can see a 4.5 star mini USB cable with 679 reviews [1]. Similarly, Monoprice has a 5 star USB extension cable with 160 reviews. [1] http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Male-Mini-Cable/dp/B00E9IF9RI/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1411450345&sr=1-2&keywords=usb http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Male-Mini-Cable/dp/B0... [2] http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030304&p_id=5435&seq=1&format=2 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=...
    - millstone 12y ago
      And the Apple Lightning cable has four stars with nearly 4k reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-to-USB-Cable/dp/B0097BEFYA/ http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-to-USB-Cable/dp/B0097B... Either there's a big difference in quality between the cables Apple sells on Amazon vs the Apple Store, or there's something else going on.
blackguardx 12y ago
The Lightning connector design exposes all the pins to the hazards of the world (the most dangerous being ESD, pin shorting being another). In order to make the industrial design work electrically, Apple had to put a tiny chip inside each lightning connector. This chip also handles switching around which side of the connector is active. As you can imagine, embedding a chip inside a connector is pretty expensive. The USB-IF doesn't actually make hardware. They create standards that other companies can use to make hardware. It would be crazy for them to spec something out that requires the kind of NRE that Apple must have paid to produce their connector. The USB-IF gets around the ugly pin shorting and ESD problems by simply adopting the same connector design that every other connector uses. They hide the pins behind a shroud so that fingers and other objects can't reach in to short anything out or cause ESD events.
- Someone 12y ago
  That chip could just as well sit in the device at the other end of the cable. I bet USB cables have one, too. It is not as if USB connectors are immune to accidental shorting (rain, cables that get crushed) Also, embedding a chip in a connector expensive? I have no idea what the chips Apple puts in cost, but cost depends on the chip and the number of cables you order.
- hyperbovine 12y ago
  That must be why I have three lightning cables which I use daily, and about 80 USB cables (one with each new device!) which sit in a pile collecting dust and tangling up the cat. Seriously, do we really need the price of usb cables tending asymptotically to zero? "Three cables should be enough for anybody."
  - nodata 12y ago
    Tell that to someone who buys a printer.
- makomk 12y ago
  > This chip also handles switching around which side of the connector is active. I don't think it does actually, think that's handled mostly by the device - the data pins just connect straight through to both sides of the connector.
pdpi 12y ago
As someone who's suffering from connectivity issues on a Lightning device, I have to disagree with your assessment of the iOS ecosystem right now.

by drcode 12y ago

azernik 12y ago

Doesn't seem so. Looking at the pictures, the design seems to consist of a receptable which looks like a Lightning connector with a piece of shielding around it, and a plug which looks like a Lightning receptable. If anything, it's mechanically close to Lightning than to the current USB connector, so there's no reason to assume that it will have bad connection.

Igglyboo 12y ago

FYI: The correct terminology for "tongue" would be male and "hole" is female.

gatehouse 12y ago
I'm not sure this is what parent^ is referring to. The "male" USB is box-shaped, and the "female" USB has the interior protrusion (with the pins on it) and then the larger slot. The apple lightning cable is just a tab that goes in a hole. Similar to a barrel power connector versus a headphone plug.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  Yea but the male usb still goes inside the female. It's really crude but the designations are supposed to mirror human reproductive organs, male goes inside of female.

i_am_ralpht 12y ago

Anecdotally, the Lightning cable seems to be a bit flaky itself, getting 1.5 stars from 1646 reviews on Apple's store: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb... Hopefully Type C will be better than Micro-B and Lightning. Also, Type C can deliver 100W of power, which I'm not sure Lightning could do...

jacobolus 12y ago
The only people who ever review items like cables are ones who ran into failures, so that’s a very skewed sampling.
- pbreit 12y ago
  No, the negative reviews on Lightning cables mostly have to do with people complaining they have to buy new cables.
- briandh 12y ago
  Online product reviews have self-selection bias, yes, but it is not true that cables are reviewed only or even mostly by people who were not satisfied. For example, on Amazon we can see a 4.5 star mini USB cable with 679 reviews [1]. Similarly, Monoprice has a 5 star USB extension cable with 160 reviews. [1] http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Male-Mini-Cable/dp/B00E9IF9RI/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1411450345&sr=1-2&keywords=usb http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Male-Mini-Cable/dp/B0... [2] http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030304&p_id=5435&seq=1&format=2 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=...
  - millstone 12y ago
    And the Apple Lightning cable has four stars with nearly 4k reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-to-USB-Cable/dp/B0097BEFYA/ http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-to-USB-Cable/dp/B0097B... Either there's a big difference in quality between the cables Apple sells on Amazon vs the Apple Store, or there's something else going on.

blackguardx 12y ago

The Lightning connector design exposes all the pins to the hazards of the world (the most dangerous being ESD, pin shorting being another). In order to make the industrial design work electrically, Apple had to put a tiny chip inside each lightning connector. This chip also handles switching around which side of the connector is active. As you can imagine, embedding a chip inside a connector is pretty expensive. The USB-IF doesn't actually make hardware. They create standards that other companies can use to make hardware. It would be crazy for them to spec something out that requires the kind of NRE that Apple must have paid to produce their connector. The USB-IF gets around the ugly pin shorting and ESD problems by simply adopting the same connector design that every other connector uses. They hide the pins behind a shroud so that fingers and other objects can't reach in to short anything out or cause ESD events.

Someone 12y ago
That chip could just as well sit in the device at the other end of the cable. I bet USB cables have one, too. It is not as if USB connectors are immune to accidental shorting (rain, cables that get crushed) Also, embedding a chip in a connector expensive? I have no idea what the chips Apple puts in cost, but cost depends on the chip and the number of cables you order.
hyperbovine 12y ago
That must be why I have three lightning cables which I use daily, and about 80 USB cables (one with each new device!) which sit in a pile collecting dust and tangling up the cat. Seriously, do we really need the price of usb cables tending asymptotically to zero? "Three cables should be enough for anybody."
- nodata 12y ago
  Tell that to someone who buys a printer.
makomk 12y ago
> This chip also handles switching around which side of the connector is active. I don't think it does actually, think that's handled mostly by the device - the data pins just connect straight through to both sides of the connector.

pdpi 12y ago

As someone who's suffering from connectivity issues on a Lightning device, I have to disagree with your assessment of the iOS ecosystem right now.