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Well, if you believe in god, then random numbers must come from him, right? Even in the sense that randomness is deterministic, it's then part of fate which is

Well, if you believe in god, then random numbers must come from him, right? Even in the sense that randomness is deterministic, it's then part of fate which is ruled by whatever supreme power you would believe in. As Luke says in The Dice Man, if "not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it", then how can a die tumble without his knowing it? A die is just as pseudo-random of course, but it's nigh impossible to have a "seed" of the exact hand movement and height you use, the surface and the form of the die. I'm an atheist, but I do find the concept of randomness being the pure will of god fascinating.

themodelplumber 12y ago
> Well, if you believe in god, then random numbers must come from him, right? Interesting! Personally I don't know if the second part must follow from the first, at least not for * in theists. But then I'm a theist who doesn't believe in fate, or "God knowing about something == God giving a care" or God giving a care what you had for dinner. Even the beliefs I harbor about what you did have for dinner (i.e. treating your body in a specific way) have more to do with God wanting good things for man in general.
- goldfeld 12y ago
  I realize I'm treading into waters of religion discussion here, but if you're a theist who refutes my statement you quoted, then you must dismiss the theory of chaos, does that follow? Since you said you don't believe in fate, I guess it does. Because if you think the theory of chaos true, that is, that everything is indeed deterministic in the sense that the world state now comes directly from the world state before, and we only think it is chaos because we can't control for all the absurd amount of variables, and if god knows everything, he sees the exact order in the chaos, and thus he knows that something as seemingly innocuous as a random number generator can have profound consequences sometimes--especially when it's used in softwares that altogether affect millions or billions of people every day. That is, pseudonumber generation in software does indeed affect a lot of people, and then if god isn't willing it, he has by the theory of chaos absolutely no control or grasp upon the world whatsoever in the end. The alternative is that you believe that god sometimes wills a random number, and most times doesn't. That would make me uncomfortable actually, but I guess that's why I don't believe in a supreme being having a will of its own, as opposed to us simply being governed by supreme principles or laws--I guess chaos is my god.

themodelplumber 12y ago

> Well, if you believe in god, then random numbers must come from him, right? Interesting! Personally I don't know if the second part must follow from the first, at least not for * in theists. But then I'm a theist who doesn't believe in fate, or "God knowing about something == God giving a care" or God giving a care what you had for dinner. Even the beliefs I harbor about what you did have for dinner (i.e. treating your body in a specific way) have more to do with God wanting good things for man in general.

goldfeld 12y ago
I realize I'm treading into waters of religion discussion here, but if you're a theist who refutes my statement you quoted, then you must dismiss the theory of chaos, does that follow? Since you said you don't believe in fate, I guess it does. Because if you think the theory of chaos true, that is, that everything is indeed deterministic in the sense that the world state now comes directly from the world state before, and we only think it is chaos because we can't control for all the absurd amount of variables, and if god knows everything, he sees the exact order in the chaos, and thus he knows that something as seemingly innocuous as a random number generator can have profound consequences sometimes--especially when it's used in softwares that altogether affect millions or billions of people every day. That is, pseudonumber generation in software does indeed affect a lot of people, and then if god isn't willing it, he has by the theory of chaos absolutely no control or grasp upon the world whatsoever in the end. The alternative is that you believe that god sometimes wills a random number, and most times doesn't. That would make me uncomfortable actually, but I guess that's why I don't believe in a supreme being having a will of its own, as opposed to us simply being governed by supreme principles or laws--I guess chaos is my god.