5 ms·

Freedivers who swim with whales

56 points by agarttha 12y ago

leeoniya 12y ago
> The gurgle of scuba equipment, submarines and robots that are normally used to study marine life tend to spook whales. To avoid scaring them, the Dare Win team have abandoned much of this technology and use freediving techniques instead, using only a mask, flippers, and a single breath of air to dive dozens of feet deep into the ocean. SCUBA doesnt make any more noise than freediving other than the bubbles, which can be solved by using (somewhat expensive) rebreathers [1][2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather_diving#Other_advantages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather_diving#Other_advanta...
- aetherson 12y ago
  When I scuba-dive, there is a noticeable sound of, I guess, a valve opening and air at some pressure flowing through said valve. The Darth Vader breath sound. It's pretty loud in the confines of my head, though I can't say how loud it would be to marine animals around me.
  - leeoniya 12y ago
    yeah you're right, but i suspect that sound is a couple orders of magnitude quieter since it isnt a rapid expansion of air directly into the water. i bet regulators exist that cut even that sound down significantly.
    - scottm01 12y ago
      Open circuit scuba gear is noisy because you are regularly exhaling gas. The regulator makes a little bit of noise, but the exhalation is generally what spooks animals. Lacking the need to exhale/vent gas (very often), Closed circuit rebreathers are extremely quiet. Some serious underwater photographers moved from the much cheaper (and arguably much safer) open circuit setups to rebreathers entirely to avoid spooking subjects. A rebreather probably can't quite compete with a freediver for silence and agility, though would certainly have a lot more time underwater to make up for it. At least some organized whale shark dives are freedive-only, probably partly to protect the animals and partly due to the time and noise required to put scuba divers into the water.
- soci 12y ago
  Scuba diving does make A LOT of noise indeed. When I freedive I can hear scubadivers by their loud sound from far away; even when I cannot see them underwater nor their boats on the surface. Then, I change location because I know I won't be able to catch any fish where they are. Even the slightest noise can scare fish, not to say marine mammals like whales. Of course I'm talking of those in open waters, not in marine reserves where they are used to humans. I've been swimming with dolphins in the Mediterranean but they were very shy. Friends of mine have been freediving with common rorquals (2nd largest whale in the world, 75Ton) also in the Med. Their pictures which I'm no sure I'm allowed to share are just breathtaking. We, the human beings are so small compared to whales! Also, a friend of mine has a rebreather. It's quite an expensive equipment and needs a special training in order to be used. They are quite complex too compared to regular scuba. Besides making no bubbles, rebreathers allow longer dive times. It's the best way to approach marine life without scaring all animals around besides freediving.
  - mironathetin 12y ago
    Is it true, that a freediver can stay under water for 4 minutes? I recently held my breath for as long as I could and measured 4 minutes (I am a trained swimmer). But without moving at all and the last minute tends to be - painfull :o) Are there techniques, or is it just training?
    - lutusp 12y ago
      > Is it true, that a freediver can stay under water for 4 minutes? Yes. It's true. This doesn't mean anyone can do it. > Are there techniques, or is it just training? Yes to both. One technique is to over-oxygenate yourself before diving. Another is to minimize oxygen use while on the dive, easier said than done, but possible. And four minutes isn't all that special: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154442/Free-diver-breaks-world-record-holding-breath-underwater-22-22-minutes.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154442/Free-diver-b...
      - mironathetin 12y ago
        Impressive. 20 minutes. Of course only 10 minutes without oxygen.
srean 12y ago
Re-purposing and embellishing an old comment of mine: Among all free diving warm blooded animals sperm whales go the deepest. They dive to depths 25 times deeper than their other equally famous and endangered cousin the blue whales. To give an idea of how deep they dive, here is a picture http://i.imgur.com/ESp2j.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ESp2j.jpg It needs to be magnified for perspective and for the little surprise at the bottom. They are also fast divers/risers. It is interesting how they manage to hold their breath for so long and yet manage to survive the bends (decompression sickness. They do get bends related damage but they can survive it). The whales are challenging our assumptions about animal intelligence, empathy, society, culture and language. For a long time we believed that the primates were at the top. Search Ted talks and youtube for dolphin intelligence, dont miss the Attenborough ones. For lack of a better word they are just amazing. Dolphins are for example known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) just to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out as well. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion, their version of the hula hoop. This behavior has been observed both in captivity and in the wild. Dolphins in captivity try to imitate us and seem to have no trouble mapping our body parts to theirs. A story goes that a scientist observing an young dolphin from an underwater portal had blown a cloud of cigarette smoke at it (on the human side of the glass). The dolphin promptly went to its mother and did the same to the scientist with dolphin milk ! Which BTW is almost as thick as tooth paste and is more squirted out than sucked. It is now strongly believed that dolphins and killer whales call each other by name. Dolphins in captivity try to imitate human speech which takes enormous effort on their part because unlike for example parrots their vocal tract is not conducive for this at all. People believe this to be an indication of their strong desire to communicate with us. And they originated from ungulates: hoofed warm blooded animals. It came as a surprise to me that that there were hoofed carnivorous animals. @walterbell thats my favorite part of posting this. I say wait for it, a fellow HN'er will surely be here with the answer any time now....and I was right :) You saw the weird octopus headed thing right ? that's a hint.
- walterbell 12y ago
  What are the hieroglyphics in the 2nd to last entry from the bottom?
thret 12y ago
Even accepting that whales are peace-loving, gentle creatures who mean no harm - isn't this insanely dangerous? They are enormous and massive. They could accidentally crush you and not even realise it, like a dog playing with a beetle.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  Sure is. The article acknowledges this: > I never wanted to swim with sperm whales. I'm not an adrenaline junky with a death wish > while swimming side-by-side with them, sperm whales can accidentally smother you, decapitate you with their tails, and many researchers believe they can also vibrate your body to death with their most intense vocalisations if they choose I occasionally step on snails despite, for the obvious reasons, being quite willing to go out of my way to avoid doing so. Same problem here.
- mcv 12y ago
  Mean no harm? They're predators. They eat scary monsters for lunch, literally. They just don't consider us prey.

56 points by agarttha 12y ago

> The gurgle of scuba equipment, submarines and robots that are normally used to study marine life tend to spook whales. To avoid scaring them, the Dare Win team have abandoned much of this technology and use freediving techniques instead, using only a mask, flippers, and a single breath of air to dive dozens of feet deep into the ocean. SCUBA doesnt make any more noise than freediving other than the bubbles, which can be solved by using (somewhat expensive) rebreathers [1][2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather_diving#Other_advantages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather_diving#Other_advanta...

aetherson 12y ago
When I scuba-dive, there is a noticeable sound of, I guess, a valve opening and air at some pressure flowing through said valve. The Darth Vader breath sound. It's pretty loud in the confines of my head, though I can't say how loud it would be to marine animals around me.
- leeoniya 12y ago
  yeah you're right, but i suspect that sound is a couple orders of magnitude quieter since it isnt a rapid expansion of air directly into the water. i bet regulators exist that cut even that sound down significantly.
  - scottm01 12y ago
    Open circuit scuba gear is noisy because you are regularly exhaling gas. The regulator makes a little bit of noise, but the exhalation is generally what spooks animals. Lacking the need to exhale/vent gas (very often), Closed circuit rebreathers are extremely quiet. Some serious underwater photographers moved from the much cheaper (and arguably much safer) open circuit setups to rebreathers entirely to avoid spooking subjects. A rebreather probably can't quite compete with a freediver for silence and agility, though would certainly have a lot more time underwater to make up for it. At least some organized whale shark dives are freedive-only, probably partly to protect the animals and partly due to the time and noise required to put scuba divers into the water.
soci 12y ago
Scuba diving does make A LOT of noise indeed. When I freedive I can hear scubadivers by their loud sound from far away; even when I cannot see them underwater nor their boats on the surface. Then, I change location because I know I won't be able to catch any fish where they are. Even the slightest noise can scare fish, not to say marine mammals like whales. Of course I'm talking of those in open waters, not in marine reserves where they are used to humans. I've been swimming with dolphins in the Mediterranean but they were very shy. Friends of mine have been freediving with common rorquals (2nd largest whale in the world, 75Ton) also in the Med. Their pictures which I'm no sure I'm allowed to share are just breathtaking. We, the human beings are so small compared to whales! Also, a friend of mine has a rebreather. It's quite an expensive equipment and needs a special training in order to be used. They are quite complex too compared to regular scuba. Besides making no bubbles, rebreathers allow longer dive times. It's the best way to approach marine life without scaring all animals around besides freediving.
- mironathetin 12y ago
  Is it true, that a freediver can stay under water for 4 minutes? I recently held my breath for as long as I could and measured 4 minutes (I am a trained swimmer). But without moving at all and the last minute tends to be - painfull :o) Are there techniques, or is it just training?
  - lutusp 12y ago
    > Is it true, that a freediver can stay under water for 4 minutes? Yes. It's true. This doesn't mean anyone can do it. > Are there techniques, or is it just training? Yes to both. One technique is to over-oxygenate yourself before diving. Another is to minimize oxygen use while on the dive, easier said than done, but possible. And four minutes isn't all that special: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154442/Free-diver-breaks-world-record-holding-breath-underwater-22-22-minutes.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154442/Free-diver-b...
    - mironathetin 12y ago
      Impressive. 20 minutes. Of course only 10 minutes without oxygen.

srean 12y ago

Re-purposing and embellishing an old comment of mine: Among all free diving warm blooded animals sperm whales go the deepest. They dive to depths 25 times deeper than their other equally famous and endangered cousin the blue whales. To give an idea of how deep they dive, here is a picture http://i.imgur.com/ESp2j.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ESp2j.jpg It needs to be magnified for perspective and for the little surprise at the bottom. They are also fast divers/risers. It is interesting how they manage to hold their breath for so long and yet manage to survive the bends (decompression sickness. They do get bends related damage but they can survive it). The whales are challenging our assumptions about animal intelligence, empathy, society, culture and language. For a long time we believed that the primates were at the top. Search Ted talks and youtube for dolphin intelligence, dont miss the Attenborough ones. For lack of a better word they are just amazing. Dolphins are for example known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) just to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out as well. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion, their version of the hula hoop. This behavior has been observed both in captivity and in the wild. Dolphins in captivity try to imitate us and seem to have no trouble mapping our body parts to theirs. A story goes that a scientist observing an young dolphin from an underwater portal had blown a cloud of cigarette smoke at it (on the human side of the glass). The dolphin promptly went to its mother and did the same to the scientist with dolphin milk ! Which BTW is almost as thick as tooth paste and is more squirted out than sucked. It is now strongly believed that dolphins and killer whales call each other by name. Dolphins in captivity try to imitate human speech which takes enormous effort on their part because unlike for example parrots their vocal tract is not conducive for this at all. People believe this to be an indication of their strong desire to communicate with us. And they originated from ungulates: hoofed warm blooded animals. It came as a surprise to me that that there were hoofed carnivorous animals. @walterbell thats my favorite part of posting this. I say wait for it, a fellow HN'er will surely be here with the answer any time now....and I was right :) You saw the weird octopus headed thing right ? that's a hint.

walterbell 12y ago
What are the hieroglyphics in the 2nd to last entry from the bottom?

thret 12y ago

Even accepting that whales are peace-loving, gentle creatures who mean no harm - isn't this insanely dangerous? They are enormous and massive. They could accidentally crush you and not even realise it, like a dog playing with a beetle.

thaumasiotes 12y ago
Sure is. The article acknowledges this: > I never wanted to swim with sperm whales. I'm not an adrenaline junky with a death wish > while swimming side-by-side with them, sperm whales can accidentally smother you, decapitate you with their tails, and many researchers believe they can also vibrate your body to death with their most intense vocalisations if they choose I occasionally step on snails despite, for the obvious reasons, being quite willing to go out of my way to avoid doing so. Same problem here.
mcv 12y ago
Mean no harm? They're predators. They eat scary monsters for lunch, literally. They just don't consider us prey.