5 ms·

Keep in mind a 4 digit passcode can by cracked in a matter of minutes by a normal powered laptop.

r00fus 12y ago
Apple's implementation makes this incredibly difficult given the 10-attempt failsafe (wipes device) and increasing timeouts for failed login ("try again in 1 hr" - after 7th failed attempt). Also even given a trivial passcode, if you use "complex passcode" and the same 4-character passcode, you've vastly increase the key search space with a minor change to usability (esp. if you have touchID).
- qwerta 12y ago
  You assume that memory and flash content of phone can not be go cloned.
  - mahyarm 12y ago
    You can encrypt the flash content, which puts you down to memory, something that is pretty hard to do when it's embedded inside the CPU SoC. If the baseband & other co-processors are not trusted with full DMA access to the CPU ram, then it's practically impossible.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- slinkyavenger 12y ago
  The failsafe/wipe and timeouts are all implemented in software, and are still in Apple's control. They would be able to easily remove those restrictions without you needing to give up anything.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    You're assuming Apple's complicity in assisting the police. Is this assumption reasonable? If you suspect Apple, why use an iOS device?
  - un3n 12y ago
    "The failsafe/wipe and timeouts are all implemented in software" So is unlocking your phone, changing your password, decrypting your phone, etc. How is it easy for them to disable the failsafe wipe if they can't decrypt your phone (and presumable the settings file where that option is stored)?
- gatehouse 12y ago
  I don't like the 10-attempt-auto-wipe because it also gives someone an easy way to erase your device -- which I think is just as likely as a scenario. For example if you recorded the police and they didn't like it... Having the password (in your mind and on your fingers) and the "sensitive information" ;- having them together in the same place at the same time is just asking for it really. Look at this list of Soviet interrogation tactics and imagine how many of them could easily be used against you in your country's justice system: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9236.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9236.htm edit: link is to a low-quality site but the text is copied directly from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago
  - spacehome 12y ago
    Fair enough, but if the phone with the recorded video is in the police's hands anyways, your odds don't look so hot.
- joshfraser 12y ago
  As we saw with the celebrity nude leaks, backups are often easier to acquire and trivial to crack using software like EPPB. Just take a look though Elcomsoft's product list if you're questioning whether you should upgrade to a stronger passcode.
- alasdair_ 12y ago
  Isn't it standard to do all decryption attempts on a clone of the phone rather than the phone itself? After ten attempts, just reset the copy and try again.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    Or after 3 attempts, or whenever the delay exceeds the time it takes to re-image the phone.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    This might have changed with iOS8 - apparently some of the vulnerabilities have been closed: http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/10/security-researcher-says-many-of-his-ios-backdoor-vulnerabilities-are-fixed-in-ios-8-gm-but-not-all/ http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/10/security-researcher-says-many-... The researcher does recommend never surrendering your phone unlocked however - that guarantees someone can just hook it up to a USB connection, and tap "trust", and then proceed to pull all your personal info and credentials out.
wyager 12y ago
Correct. Even with hardware-entangled key stretching, Apple can jack into your phone, disable the 10-entry erase, and then brute-force your passkey. With Android, they don't even need to use the phone. They can just dump the flash storage and attack it on arbitrarily powerful hardware. You can thankfully enable arbitrarily long numeric or alphanumeric PINs on Android and iOS.

Apple's implementation makes this incredibly difficult given the 10-attempt failsafe (wipes device) and increasing timeouts for failed login ("try again in 1 hr" - after 7th failed attempt). Also even given a trivial passcode, if you use "complex passcode" and the same 4-character passcode, you've vastly increase the key search space with a minor change to usability (esp. if you have touchID).

qwerta 12y ago
You assume that memory and flash content of phone can not be go cloned.
- mahyarm 12y ago
  You can encrypt the flash content, which puts you down to memory, something that is pretty hard to do when it's embedded inside the CPU SoC. If the baseband & other co-processors are not trusted with full DMA access to the CPU ram, then it's practically impossible.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
slinkyavenger 12y ago
The failsafe/wipe and timeouts are all implemented in software, and are still in Apple's control. They would be able to easily remove those restrictions without you needing to give up anything.
- r00fus 12y ago
  You're assuming Apple's complicity in assisting the police. Is this assumption reasonable? If you suspect Apple, why use an iOS device?
- un3n 12y ago
  "The failsafe/wipe and timeouts are all implemented in software" So is unlocking your phone, changing your password, decrypting your phone, etc. How is it easy for them to disable the failsafe wipe if they can't decrypt your phone (and presumable the settings file where that option is stored)?
gatehouse 12y ago
I don't like the 10-attempt-auto-wipe because it also gives someone an easy way to erase your device -- which I think is just as likely as a scenario. For example if you recorded the police and they didn't like it... Having the password (in your mind and on your fingers) and the "sensitive information" ;- having them together in the same place at the same time is just asking for it really. Look at this list of Soviet interrogation tactics and imagine how many of them could easily be used against you in your country's justice system: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9236.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9236.htm edit: link is to a low-quality site but the text is copied directly from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago
- spacehome 12y ago
  Fair enough, but if the phone with the recorded video is in the police's hands anyways, your odds don't look so hot.
joshfraser 12y ago
As we saw with the celebrity nude leaks, backups are often easier to acquire and trivial to crack using software like EPPB. Just take a look though Elcomsoft's product list if you're questioning whether you should upgrade to a stronger passcode.
alasdair_ 12y ago
Isn't it standard to do all decryption attempts on a clone of the phone rather than the phone itself? After ten attempts, just reset the copy and try again.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  Or after 3 attempts, or whenever the delay exceeds the time it takes to re-image the phone.
- r00fus 12y ago
  This might have changed with iOS8 - apparently some of the vulnerabilities have been closed: http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/10/security-researcher-says-many-of-his-ios-backdoor-vulnerabilities-are-fixed-in-ios-8-gm-but-not-all/ http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/10/security-researcher-says-many-... The researcher does recommend never surrendering your phone unlocked however - that guarantees someone can just hook it up to a USB connection, and tap "trust", and then proceed to pull all your personal info and credentials out.

wyager 12y ago

Correct. Even with hardware-entangled key stretching, Apple can jack into your phone, disable the 10-entry erase, and then brute-force your passkey. With Android, they don't even need to use the phone. They can just dump the flash storage and attack it on arbitrarily powerful hardware. You can thankfully enable arbitrarily long numeric or alphanumeric PINs on Android and iOS.