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I feel like this article is a bit one sided. It doesn't ever state NJ's case against the students and draws strong parallels to Aaron Swartz (a hero to many peo

I feel like this article is a bit one sided. It doesn't ever state NJ's case against the students and draws strong parallels to Aaron Swartz (a hero to many people). A lot of the time these parallels seem to be weak, the student who did this is an MIT student who built a piece of software at a hackathon, this has almost nothing to do with Aaron Swartz's situation except it involves a young programmer and MIT.

jnbiche 12y ago
> It doesn't ever state NJ's case against the students That's because NJ literally doesn't have a case against the students -- there have been no charges filed. This is an unconstitutional fishing expedition that I suspect is intended to intimidate and create an atmosphere of fear, not just among Bitcoiners but all tinkerers and hackers (in the MIT/HN sense of the word).
- frandroid 12y ago
  The term you're looking for is "white hat" hackers.
- jychang 12y ago
  > hackers (in the MIT/HN sense of the word). As someone at Berkeley who's been to many events at MIT, I feel like the definition of Silicon Valley/West Coast "hacker" is very different from the MIT hacker.
  - surge 12y ago
    The original term hacker came from the MIT Model Railroad Club. It came from when they "hacked" together some phone switching equipment to control the relays on their model railroad. Someone who used something other than its original intended or imagined purpose for some cool new innovative purpose. SV/West Coast has largely adopted the same term, albeit in a much looser sense.
    - nsrango 12y ago
      MIT "hack" comes from the pranks and unauthorized adventuring that many undergraduates came to enjoy on campus. (eg. http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/misc/best_of.html http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/misc/best_of.html) Hack was then used by MIT's TMRC of which many members became involved with/helped build the AI-lab. The first third of Hackers (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Anniversary-Edition/dp/1449388396 http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Anniversar...) gives a good perspective on the evolution.
      - surge 12y ago
        Yes, I've actually read the book, that's why I thought it came originally from the TMRC as one of the many slang terms or jargon they came up with.
  - jnbiche 12y ago
    Hmm, I think it depends on who is using it out West. There are plenty of MIT-style hackers in CA who describe themselves as such, including many on HN. But you may be partly right, I think that the way it's used among SV entrepreneurs differs a little from the MIT connotation. But all that is pretty immaterial to the question at hand. Both hacker subcultures are probably intended as the target of intimidation.
- eli 12y ago
  To be fair, they are supposed to collect sufficient evidence of a crime before charging someone. That they haven't charged anyone yet doesn't prove anything. New Jersey, I suppose, has a right to investigate businesses it thinks are defrauding its residents. But it really feels like there is more to the story. Perhaps someone reused the existing code in malware? Or maybe New Jersey is simply confused.
  - fleitz 12y ago
    They sure do have a right, they also have the right to get a warrant if they want to search.
    - eli 12y ago
      Well, so far that's what the whole case is about: whether the students should have to comply with the subpoena.
      - seanflyon 12y ago
        Could someone explain the difference between a warrant and a subpoena? I have a feeling the distinction is significant here.
        bzbarsky 12y ago
        I am not a lawyer, so I have no idea how accurate https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas is, but chances are it's pretty accurate; I would trust the EFF on this sort of thing.
        fleitz 12y ago
        https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas
nemanja 12y ago
Parallel to Aaron Swartz is rather strong, in my view, in that this is also a case of gross prosecutorial overreach.
TorKlingberg 12y ago
I think that issue is that running a Bitcoin miner on unsuspecting website visitors' computers would constitute unauthorized access. Much like a miner botnet.
- drdaeman 12y ago
  Heh, if that works, guess one could sue Google for putting their analytics on many websites. See, those bastards unauthorizedly run their software on my machine, and it even spies on me, reporting on my browsing habits! /jk
  - orbifold 12y ago
    I think there could actually be a case be made that it should require the users consent. Just like the EU has recently mandated that websites have to get the consent of users to use cookies.
    - Andrew_Quentin 12y ago
      Yet no website provides you with an add free version first or analytic free version first before asking for your consent. The way EU law is currently implemented by websites assumes consent making the whole exercise completely redundant.
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        I don't find it redundant; I quite like having a direct link to the cookie policy available when I visit a website for the first time, instead of having to hunt for it. I don't always care about the site's policy on such matters, but dismissing the notices of sites that I don't care about is a minor annoyance at best.
      - orbifold 12y ago
        I think with the right pressure from Civil Rights groups they might actually be willing to strengthen those laws further, especially since most of the corporations affected are from the US. Things like mandating that Data stored about you has to be deletable and stored in Europe.

jnbiche 12y ago

> It doesn't ever state NJ's case against the students That's because NJ literally doesn't have a case against the students -- there have been no charges filed. This is an unconstitutional fishing expedition that I suspect is intended to intimidate and create an atmosphere of fear, not just among Bitcoiners but all tinkerers and hackers (in the MIT/HN sense of the word).

frandroid 12y ago
The term you're looking for is "white hat" hackers.
jychang 12y ago
> hackers (in the MIT/HN sense of the word). As someone at Berkeley who's been to many events at MIT, I feel like the definition of Silicon Valley/West Coast "hacker" is very different from the MIT hacker.
- surge 12y ago
  The original term hacker came from the MIT Model Railroad Club. It came from when they "hacked" together some phone switching equipment to control the relays on their model railroad. Someone who used something other than its original intended or imagined purpose for some cool new innovative purpose. SV/West Coast has largely adopted the same term, albeit in a much looser sense.
  - nsrango 12y ago
    MIT "hack" comes from the pranks and unauthorized adventuring that many undergraduates came to enjoy on campus. (eg. http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/misc/best_of.html http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/misc/best_of.html) Hack was then used by MIT's TMRC of which many members became involved with/helped build the AI-lab. The first third of Hackers (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Anniversary-Edition/dp/1449388396 http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Anniversar...) gives a good perspective on the evolution.
    - surge 12y ago
      Yes, I've actually read the book, that's why I thought it came originally from the TMRC as one of the many slang terms or jargon they came up with.
- jnbiche 12y ago
  Hmm, I think it depends on who is using it out West. There are plenty of MIT-style hackers in CA who describe themselves as such, including many on HN. But you may be partly right, I think that the way it's used among SV entrepreneurs differs a little from the MIT connotation. But all that is pretty immaterial to the question at hand. Both hacker subcultures are probably intended as the target of intimidation.
eli 12y ago
To be fair, they are supposed to collect sufficient evidence of a crime before charging someone. That they haven't charged anyone yet doesn't prove anything. New Jersey, I suppose, has a right to investigate businesses it thinks are defrauding its residents. But it really feels like there is more to the story. Perhaps someone reused the existing code in malware? Or maybe New Jersey is simply confused.
- fleitz 12y ago
  They sure do have a right, they also have the right to get a warrant if they want to search.
  - eli 12y ago
    Well, so far that's what the whole case is about: whether the students should have to comply with the subpoena.
    - seanflyon 12y ago
      Could someone explain the difference between a warrant and a subpoena? I have a feeling the distinction is significant here.
      - bzbarsky 12y ago
        I am not a lawyer, so I have no idea how accurate https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas is, but chances are it's pretty accurate; I would trust the EFF on this sort of thing.
      - fleitz 12y ago
        https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas

nemanja 12y ago

Parallel to Aaron Swartz is rather strong, in my view, in that this is also a case of gross prosecutorial overreach.

TorKlingberg 12y ago

I think that issue is that running a Bitcoin miner on unsuspecting website visitors' computers would constitute unauthorized access. Much like a miner botnet.

drdaeman 12y ago
Heh, if that works, guess one could sue Google for putting their analytics on many websites. See, those bastards unauthorizedly run their software on my machine, and it even spies on me, reporting on my browsing habits! /jk
- orbifold 12y ago
  I think there could actually be a case be made that it should require the users consent. Just like the EU has recently mandated that websites have to get the consent of users to use cookies.
  - Andrew_Quentin 12y ago
    Yet no website provides you with an add free version first or analytic free version first before asking for your consent. The way EU law is currently implemented by websites assumes consent making the whole exercise completely redundant.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      I don't find it redundant; I quite like having a direct link to the cookie policy available when I visit a website for the first time, instead of having to hunt for it. I don't always care about the site's policy on such matters, but dismissing the notices of sites that I don't care about is a minor annoyance at best.
    - orbifold 12y ago
      I think with the right pressure from Civil Rights groups they might actually be willing to strengthen those laws further, especially since most of the corporations affected are from the US. Things like mandating that Data stored about you has to be deletable and stored in Europe.