3 ms·

Exactly. Someday people are going to see that Nationalism is essentially the same thing as Racism and just as ugly. Nationalism/Racism => "People are more dese

Exactly. Someday people are going to see that Nationalism is essentially the same thing as Racism and just as ugly. Nationalism/Racism => "People are more deserving if [they live in X/are of ethnicity X]."

unknownian 12y ago
Nationalism if contained is closer to capitalism than racism. Everyone competes in this economy. Some people just root for their own team.
- golemotron 12y ago
  In a world of multi-nationals most "team" assignments are an illusion. I met a guy in a bar who was upset that a BP gas station opened up in his community. He wished it was something like Shell. I said "Oh, you mean the Dutch company, Royal Dutch Shell?" That drove the point home to him, but the deeper point is that the shareholders and employees are of a company like that are global. Even if they weren't, the people that the shareholders and employees of that company give money to (the people they buy toilet paper, cars, and food from) can be and are of any nationality also. Take a $20 bill and see how many hands touch it in a year. Take that same 20 dollars as a ledger entry and see how many countries have possession over a fraction of it in that same year. It's staggering. "Buy American" is a complete illusion.
jiggy2011 12y ago
(moderate) nationalism is just about cooperation with people you share a space with, don't you give preferential treatment to your family and friends?
- golemotron 12y ago
  With family and friends our cooperation can be grounded in our concrete experience of them. For what it's worth, I can recommend my brother-in-law, but I feel no urge to recommend/cooperate with his sister if I've never met her or heard anything about her. Nationalism is more like, "hey, I live in Tampa Bay so the Buccaneers are the best!" It's groundless presumption that someone or something is better or more deserving because you are close to it. It's a pernicious cognitive bias.
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    But you would presumably find it easier to cooperate with her than a stranger picked at random because you have a shared link. It's not so much that one thing is better as it is that you are more able to help those closest to you, in roughly the order yourself - family - community - country. Without some degree of nationalism it is hard to justify things like universal healthcare, the welfare state or even politics on a smaller than global level. We invest in our communities because they invest in us.

unknownian 12y ago

Nationalism if contained is closer to capitalism than racism. Everyone competes in this economy. Some people just root for their own team.

golemotron 12y ago
In a world of multi-nationals most "team" assignments are an illusion. I met a guy in a bar who was upset that a BP gas station opened up in his community. He wished it was something like Shell. I said "Oh, you mean the Dutch company, Royal Dutch Shell?" That drove the point home to him, but the deeper point is that the shareholders and employees are of a company like that are global. Even if they weren't, the people that the shareholders and employees of that company give money to (the people they buy toilet paper, cars, and food from) can be and are of any nationality also. Take a $20 bill and see how many hands touch it in a year. Take that same 20 dollars as a ledger entry and see how many countries have possession over a fraction of it in that same year. It's staggering. "Buy American" is a complete illusion.

jiggy2011 12y ago

(moderate) nationalism is just about cooperation with people you share a space with, don't you give preferential treatment to your family and friends?

golemotron 12y ago
With family and friends our cooperation can be grounded in our concrete experience of them. For what it's worth, I can recommend my brother-in-law, but I feel no urge to recommend/cooperate with his sister if I've never met her or heard anything about her. Nationalism is more like, "hey, I live in Tampa Bay so the Buccaneers are the best!" It's groundless presumption that someone or something is better or more deserving because you are close to it. It's a pernicious cognitive bias.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  But you would presumably find it easier to cooperate with her than a stranger picked at random because you have a shared link. It's not so much that one thing is better as it is that you are more able to help those closest to you, in roughly the order yourself - family - community - country. Without some degree of nationalism it is hard to justify things like universal healthcare, the welfare state or even politics on a smaller than global level. We invest in our communities because they invest in us.