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Personally I'm for making immigration easier but how necessary is it for businesses considering that they can hire from anywhere in EU with very few hurdles? Ar

Personally I'm for making immigration easier but how necessary is it for businesses considering that they can hire from anywhere in EU with very few hurdles? Are there really many people outside the EU that are so skilled that an alternative can't be found within the EU?

rtpg 12y ago
well, hiring from silicon valley for one thing
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  But my point is that the hiring pool is already huge (the entire EU). Are there lots of people in SV who want to move to London and who have skills that nobody in the EU does?
  - ryanjshaw 12y ago
    I'm in South Africa. I work for a global company with offices in London. I have very specific knowledge that makes me a natural candidate for employment by the London office that nobody in the EU would have. But I have private life and certain freedoms here in South Africa, which I have to give up to work in the UK under the current visa scheme. I would have to terminate all my side projects that earn revenue, and only work on non-income generating projects - or perhaps become a couch potato. How does that benefit the UK, bearing in mind I can easily get the visa with these restrictions? All the UK is going to end up with, under this policy, is a majority of migrants with no dreams to do anything bigger than what their boss tells them to do.
    - k-mcgrady 12y ago
      Thanks. Like I said in the original comment I'm for opening up immigration. I just wonder how many people there are like you. Are there enough to convince government the spend the time and money to change the immigration laws.
      - nsomaru 12y ago
        Add me to that list. Also from South Africa.
      - ryanjshaw 12y ago
        > Are there enough to convince government the spend the time and money to change the immigration laws I'm expressing my hope that the UK returns to the pre-2010 highly skilled migrant policy. There was a reason for that policy; had they not stuffed around with it to make a particularly weak political statement, this situation wouldn't exist to rectify.
    - walshemj 12y ago
      Can you not get an intra company transfer?
  - walshemj 12y ago
    And cant move on intra company transfer
ryanjshaw 12y ago
According to e.g. the CEO of Citibank [1] and the mayor of London [2], immigration reform would really benefit the UK. The OECD suggests that there's no reason not to [3]. However, it's more complicated than that. The current policy is actively deterring young, skilled people from developing their skills and connections in the UK, which is a great concern for the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee [4] - who clearly understands that immigration is a long-term process, and governments can't treat people like sheep if they hope to attract talent. If you were 30, about to start a family, would you immigrate knowing that you're not allowed to make money from tinkering on a side project for the next 5/6 years? And that after that time you wouldn't even be sure if you and your family could remain in the UK? It's a tough decision. And yet the best of the best are exactly in that position -- the people who tinker on the side are exactly the people who become the best, not the ones doing a 9-5 day job. The irritating thing is that the policies were great prior to 2010, until Cameron decided to make a policy of reducing immigration to levels that are simply impossible ("tens of thousands"). His only way to control immigration is non-EU immigration, which is a very small percentage of actual UK immigration. It turns out that just a few days ago the government has finally started to acknowledge the sham [5], after years of criticism. Unfortunately in the meantime, people have to make very difficult life changing decisions in the face of this political drama. [1] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-27/minister-uk-will-not-bow-to-business-case-for-increased-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-27/minister-uk-will-n... [2] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-17/london-mayor-london-would-fall-like-sparta-without-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-17/london-mayor-londo... [3] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-05-23/migration-is-economically-neutral-says-oecd-report http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-05-23/migration-is-econo... [4] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-04-14/lords-denounce-uks-overblown-rhetoric-on-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-04-14/lords-denounce-uks... [5] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-09-17/deputy-pm-uk-has-scrapped-plans-to-reduce-immigration-to-tens%20of%20thousands http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-09-17/deputy-pm-uk-has-s...
- Nursie 12y ago
  The only way it would benefit the UK would be by maintaining or further lowering the already low tech wages. This is not to be encouraged.
walshemj 12y ago
yes given that you have all the eu to recruit from there is no real justification for the skill shortage argument.

rtpg 12y ago

well, hiring from silicon valley for one thing

k-mcgrady 12y ago
But my point is that the hiring pool is already huge (the entire EU). Are there lots of people in SV who want to move to London and who have skills that nobody in the EU does?
- ryanjshaw 12y ago
  I'm in South Africa. I work for a global company with offices in London. I have very specific knowledge that makes me a natural candidate for employment by the London office that nobody in the EU would have. But I have private life and certain freedoms here in South Africa, which I have to give up to work in the UK under the current visa scheme. I would have to terminate all my side projects that earn revenue, and only work on non-income generating projects - or perhaps become a couch potato. How does that benefit the UK, bearing in mind I can easily get the visa with these restrictions? All the UK is going to end up with, under this policy, is a majority of migrants with no dreams to do anything bigger than what their boss tells them to do.
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    Thanks. Like I said in the original comment I'm for opening up immigration. I just wonder how many people there are like you. Are there enough to convince government the spend the time and money to change the immigration laws.
    - nsomaru 12y ago
      Add me to that list. Also from South Africa.
    - ryanjshaw 12y ago
      > Are there enough to convince government the spend the time and money to change the immigration laws I'm expressing my hope that the UK returns to the pre-2010 highly skilled migrant policy. There was a reason for that policy; had they not stuffed around with it to make a particularly weak political statement, this situation wouldn't exist to rectify.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    Can you not get an intra company transfer?
- walshemj 12y ago
  And cant move on intra company transfer

ryanjshaw 12y ago

According to e.g. the CEO of Citibank [1] and the mayor of London [2], immigration reform would really benefit the UK. The OECD suggests that there's no reason not to [3]. However, it's more complicated than that. The current policy is actively deterring young, skilled people from developing their skills and connections in the UK, which is a great concern for the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee [4] - who clearly understands that immigration is a long-term process, and governments can't treat people like sheep if they hope to attract talent. If you were 30, about to start a family, would you immigrate knowing that you're not allowed to make money from tinkering on a side project for the next 5/6 years? And that after that time you wouldn't even be sure if you and your family could remain in the UK? It's a tough decision. And yet the best of the best are exactly in that position -- the people who tinker on the side are exactly the people who become the best, not the ones doing a 9-5 day job. The irritating thing is that the policies were great prior to 2010, until Cameron decided to make a policy of reducing immigration to levels that are simply impossible ("tens of thousands"). His only way to control immigration is non-EU immigration, which is a very small percentage of actual UK immigration. It turns out that just a few days ago the government has finally started to acknowledge the sham [5], after years of criticism. Unfortunately in the meantime, people have to make very difficult life changing decisions in the face of this political drama. [1] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-27/minister-uk-will-not-bow-to-business-case-for-increased-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-27/minister-uk-will-n... [2] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-17/london-mayor-london-would-fall-like-sparta-without-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-06-17/london-mayor-londo... [3] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-05-23/migration-is-economically-neutral-says-oecd-report http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-05-23/migration-is-econo... [4] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-04-14/lords-denounce-uks-overblown-rhetoric-on-immigration http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-04-14/lords-denounce-uks... [5] http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-09-17/deputy-pm-uk-has-scrapped-plans-to-reduce-immigration-to-tens%20of%20thousands http://www.workpermit.com/news/2014-09-17/deputy-pm-uk-has-s...

Nursie 12y ago
The only way it would benefit the UK would be by maintaining or further lowering the already low tech wages. This is not to be encouraged.

walshemj 12y ago

yes given that you have all the eu to recruit from there is no real justification for the skill shortage argument.