6 ms·

London is the place to be in Europe. I only wish there were proper large tech companies head-quartered here and capable of competing with financial sector in sa

London is the place to be in Europe. I only wish there were proper large tech companies head-quartered here and capable of competing with financial sector in salaries.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  Sorry but I disagree with nearly all of that. >> "many CS graduates I meet really want to work in tech rather than finance" I would hope so considering what they studied CS. And I'm are many finance grads want to work in finance rather than tech. >> "They want you to work 60+ hours give or take" This also applies to a lot of startups. Even in places that don't enforce extra long hours you often feel pressured to arrive early and stay late. >> "There is dress code - really ? 2014 and we still enforce people to wear suits ? we grew up idolizing steve jobs so no thanks." Didn't Steve Jobs have his own uniform (turtle neck, jeans, trainers)? Even places that don't require a suit usually have some sort of dress code (jeans, shirt). In a small startup you will have to meet investors or potential customers and in these situations it's required to look at least respectable. It sucks but appearances matter. >> "Tech is way more fun and the chances of making it big is what drives many young people." Personally I think tech is more fun but I know lots of people who have fun working in the financial sector. >> "A tech career to many people is a lot like an struggling actor's career however the difference is there is less luck and more hardworking." I disagree completely. There is LOTS of luck in the startup game. Sure you have to work hard but there are tonnes of people who work their asses off and don't succeed even though they have a good product. If you read about the work ethic of the worlds biggest actors I think you'd be surprised. Most of them got there by working their asses off too. And they also got lucky.
  - lmm 12y ago
    > This also applies to a lot of startups. Even in places that don't enforce extra long hours you often feel pressured to arrive early and stay late. Not my experience, working in several London tech companies. > Didn't Steve Jobs have his own uniform (turtle neck, jeans, trainers)? Even places that don't require a suit usually have some sort of dress code (jeans, shirt). In a small startup you will have to meet investors or potential customers and in these situations it's required to look at least respectable. It sucks but appearances matter. Only one of those tech companies I worked for enforced a dress code. It was the one that went bankrupt. I don't think this is coincidence.
    - k-mcgrady 12y ago
      >> "Only one of those tech companies I worked for enforced a dress code. It was the one that went bankrupt. I don't think this is coincidence." You can't be serious.
Nursie 12y ago
There are offices of a few large tech companies around but it makes sense for them only to have a sales presence in London because it's so incredibly expensive. And for workers the UK is not great. Salaries are very low (when compared to other english-speaking nations) and so are expectations in many companies.
- justincormack 12y ago
  Google has a non sales presence in the UK, has done for a long time (indeed they claim not to have sales people in UK for tax reasons!). Amazon has just announced it is moving from Slough to Shoreditch. I am fairly sure Facebook has engineers here. The older tech companies were based in the traditional M4 corridor (Microsoft, Oracle, etc) but many companies there are moving to London, as it is easier to hire people. Salaries are lower than the US, maybe, or parts of it, but lower than other English speaking countries?
  - Nursie 12y ago
    I based that on my experience of the USA and Australia. I got a 60% raise to do the same job for the same company when I moved from London to Perth a few years ago. Tech salaries outside of finance in the UK in general are pretty depressed IMHO. As far as I can tell this is for a complex of reasons - engineers not expecting very much cash, the good ones all either go abroad or into finance, companies are used to mediocre engineers therefore are not willing to pay well etc etc. Me, I'm a high priced contractor because it's the only way I've found to replicate a US/AU salary. And I'm worth it. On my last project I committed twice as much code as the three permanent engineers combined.
rogy 12y ago
Agree with this, I work in tech in London for a company that has a NY and SF office, they pay CS grads (first or 2nd year out of school) between 90 and 110 thousand dollars. Exactly the same position in London gets me just under 30 thousand pounds (48k usd) the only way for me to earn anywhere near even the 90 range would be to move in to finance
- justincormack 12y ago
  Well they are taking the piss. Leave and go somewhere that pays market rate.
  - Nursie 12y ago
    That is market rate in the UK. Tech people are not well valued here.
    - bshimmin 12y ago
      Perhaps computer science graduates in the UK don't make the same kind of money that they do in the Bay Area, but do you really think those salaries are actually justified in any real sense? Should a junior developer fresh out of his computer science degree really be earning more than, say, a trainee doctor?
      - Nursie 12y ago
        The bay area is a weird phenomenon, and I wouldn't want it replicated everywhere. However. I don't believe that software folks in the UK are remunerated in line with their skills and value, nor the money they bring in Just what they have been lead to believe they are worth by business and by their own risk-averse, non entrepreneurial nature. This is pretty much the definition of market value I guess!
        bshimmin 12y ago
        I think people who work in technology in the UK - in London at least - are remunerated similarly as well as, if not better than, the other more traditional professions, by which I mean lawyers, doctors, and teachers (the latter were always traditionally paid worse, but are paid a bit better now). Outside of London, it's probably a different story, where I think tech workers probably do worse on the whole. If you work in tech and you feel hardly done by, and you're of the entrepreneurial sort, you can quite easily become a contractor and make an awful lot of money. I don't think that's so easily done in other professions. There will always be outliers who make staggering amounts of money - a partner at a magic circle law firm, or a very high level accountant at one of the big four, might command seven figures rather than six; but we have those in tech too: CTOs.

London is the place to be in Europe. I only wish there were proper large tech companies head-quartered here and capable of competing with financial sector in salaries.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

k-mcgrady 12y ago
Sorry but I disagree with nearly all of that. >> "many CS graduates I meet really want to work in tech rather than finance" I would hope so considering what they studied CS. And I'm are many finance grads want to work in finance rather than tech. >> "They want you to work 60+ hours give or take" This also applies to a lot of startups. Even in places that don't enforce extra long hours you often feel pressured to arrive early and stay late. >> "There is dress code - really ? 2014 and we still enforce people to wear suits ? we grew up idolizing steve jobs so no thanks." Didn't Steve Jobs have his own uniform (turtle neck, jeans, trainers)? Even places that don't require a suit usually have some sort of dress code (jeans, shirt). In a small startup you will have to meet investors or potential customers and in these situations it's required to look at least respectable. It sucks but appearances matter. >> "Tech is way more fun and the chances of making it big is what drives many young people." Personally I think tech is more fun but I know lots of people who have fun working in the financial sector. >> "A tech career to many people is a lot like an struggling actor's career however the difference is there is less luck and more hardworking." I disagree completely. There is LOTS of luck in the startup game. Sure you have to work hard but there are tonnes of people who work their asses off and don't succeed even though they have a good product. If you read about the work ethic of the worlds biggest actors I think you'd be surprised. Most of them got there by working their asses off too. And they also got lucky.
- lmm 12y ago
  > This also applies to a lot of startups. Even in places that don't enforce extra long hours you often feel pressured to arrive early and stay late. Not my experience, working in several London tech companies. > Didn't Steve Jobs have his own uniform (turtle neck, jeans, trainers)? Even places that don't require a suit usually have some sort of dress code (jeans, shirt). In a small startup you will have to meet investors or potential customers and in these situations it's required to look at least respectable. It sucks but appearances matter. Only one of those tech companies I worked for enforced a dress code. It was the one that went bankrupt. I don't think this is coincidence.
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    >> "Only one of those tech companies I worked for enforced a dress code. It was the one that went bankrupt. I don't think this is coincidence." You can't be serious.

Nursie 12y ago

There are offices of a few large tech companies around but it makes sense for them only to have a sales presence in London because it's so incredibly expensive. And for workers the UK is not great. Salaries are very low (when compared to other english-speaking nations) and so are expectations in many companies.

justincormack 12y ago
Google has a non sales presence in the UK, has done for a long time (indeed they claim not to have sales people in UK for tax reasons!). Amazon has just announced it is moving from Slough to Shoreditch. I am fairly sure Facebook has engineers here. The older tech companies were based in the traditional M4 corridor (Microsoft, Oracle, etc) but many companies there are moving to London, as it is easier to hire people. Salaries are lower than the US, maybe, or parts of it, but lower than other English speaking countries?
- Nursie 12y ago
  I based that on my experience of the USA and Australia. I got a 60% raise to do the same job for the same company when I moved from London to Perth a few years ago. Tech salaries outside of finance in the UK in general are pretty depressed IMHO. As far as I can tell this is for a complex of reasons - engineers not expecting very much cash, the good ones all either go abroad or into finance, companies are used to mediocre engineers therefore are not willing to pay well etc etc. Me, I'm a high priced contractor because it's the only way I've found to replicate a US/AU salary. And I'm worth it. On my last project I committed twice as much code as the three permanent engineers combined.

rogy 12y ago

Agree with this, I work in tech in London for a company that has a NY and SF office, they pay CS grads (first or 2nd year out of school) between 90 and 110 thousand dollars. Exactly the same position in London gets me just under 30 thousand pounds (48k usd) the only way for me to earn anywhere near even the 90 range would be to move in to finance

justincormack 12y ago
Well they are taking the piss. Leave and go somewhere that pays market rate.
- Nursie 12y ago
  That is market rate in the UK. Tech people are not well valued here.
  - bshimmin 12y ago
    Perhaps computer science graduates in the UK don't make the same kind of money that they do in the Bay Area, but do you really think those salaries are actually justified in any real sense? Should a junior developer fresh out of his computer science degree really be earning more than, say, a trainee doctor?
    - Nursie 12y ago
      The bay area is a weird phenomenon, and I wouldn't want it replicated everywhere. However. I don't believe that software folks in the UK are remunerated in line with their skills and value, nor the money they bring in Just what they have been lead to believe they are worth by business and by their own risk-averse, non entrepreneurial nature. This is pretty much the definition of market value I guess!
      - bshimmin 12y ago
        I think people who work in technology in the UK - in London at least - are remunerated similarly as well as, if not better than, the other more traditional professions, by which I mean lawyers, doctors, and teachers (the latter were always traditionally paid worse, but are paid a bit better now). Outside of London, it's probably a different story, where I think tech workers probably do worse on the whole. If you work in tech and you feel hardly done by, and you're of the entrepreneurial sort, you can quite easily become a contractor and make an awful lot of money. I don't think that's so easily done in other professions. There will always be outliers who make staggering amounts of money - a partner at a magic circle law firm, or a very high level accountant at one of the big four, might command seven figures rather than six; but we have those in tech too: CTOs.