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I experience the same thing with devs and 'done' all the time. "It's done; it just has some bugs that need fixing." To be fair, I've said this sentence myself

I experience the same thing with devs and 'done' all the time. "It's done; it just has some bugs that need fixing." To be fair, I've said this sentence myself in earnest several times.

hrktb 12y ago
OTOH, software that has no bugs in need of fixing is usually not a realistic goal. You can say it will probably never be done, or you update your definition of "done" to "it has no bugs stopping a release". Personally I prefer the latter.
- thejdude 12y ago
  From my experience the problem isn't the existence of bugs (like the existence of gravity), but the widespread occurrence of the cowboy programmer with very limited attention span. Often there are tons of TODO comments left in the code (including TODO comment this class), unit tests are non-existent, a simple smoke test will cause a null pointer exception or not even deploy, or they committed schema migration SQL scripts but did not change the entities/data objects corresponding to those tables so the - now mandatory - new columns cannot even be FILLED by the app. Stuff like that, that isn't DONE, it's deserving a punch in the face. OTOH, it may be symptomatic of our don't-blame culture that the consulting firm in question isn't fired on the spot or the much needed punch in the face isn't delivered. Those are days I wish we had US-American at-will employment and hire/fire culture.
- benjamincburns 12y ago
  It almost always means "bugs blocking release" in my experience. Usually the sentence I quoted is developer speak for "it's framed out, and the core functionality has been shown to work under this scheme," or "all of the known-to-be-risky stuff is done and all that's left is tedium," or perhaps some cross between the two. It's not malicious. You could argue it's negligent, but I would only agree with that assessment if the Dev in question doesn't include the "it just has some bugs that need fixing" bit and is attempting to see what he/she can squeak by QA because he/she doesn't want to work on that thing anymore. Otherwise it just reflects the difference in focus between writing code and building a product.

I experience the same thing with devs and 'done' all the time. "It's done; it just has some bugs that need fixing." To be fair, I've said this sentence myself in earnest several times.

hrktb 12y ago

OTOH, software that has no bugs in need of fixing is usually not a realistic goal. You can say it will probably never be done, or you update your definition of "done" to "it has no bugs stopping a release". Personally I prefer the latter.

thejdude 12y ago
From my experience the problem isn't the existence of bugs (like the existence of gravity), but the widespread occurrence of the cowboy programmer with very limited attention span. Often there are tons of TODO comments left in the code (including TODO comment this class), unit tests are non-existent, a simple smoke test will cause a null pointer exception or not even deploy, or they committed schema migration SQL scripts but did not change the entities/data objects corresponding to those tables so the - now mandatory - new columns cannot even be FILLED by the app. Stuff like that, that isn't DONE, it's deserving a punch in the face. OTOH, it may be symptomatic of our don't-blame culture that the consulting firm in question isn't fired on the spot or the much needed punch in the face isn't delivered. Those are days I wish we had US-American at-will employment and hire/fire culture.
benjamincburns 12y ago
It almost always means "bugs blocking release" in my experience. Usually the sentence I quoted is developer speak for "it's framed out, and the core functionality has been shown to work under this scheme," or "all of the known-to-be-risky stuff is done and all that's left is tedium," or perhaps some cross between the two. It's not malicious. You could argue it's negligent, but I would only agree with that assessment if the Dev in question doesn't include the "it just has some bugs that need fixing" bit and is attempting to see what he/she can squeak by QA because he/she doesn't want to work on that thing anymore. Otherwise it just reflects the difference in focus between writing code and building a product.