4 ms·

You say we have nothing better to worry about than certain portrayals, but try and imagine being constantly portrayed as: (a) a likely gang member, (b) someon

You say we have nothing better to worry about than certain portrayals, but try and imagine being constantly portrayed as: (a) a likely gang member, (b) someone who can be called a slut and spanked because of the length of their skirt, (c) someone who can shot dead because someone of a different skin color felt slightly threatened. or (d) someone who can be killed for using the wrong bathroom. Where does "nothing better to do" fit into those prevalent portrayals?

Loughla 12y ago
Imagine being constantly portrayed as someone who can be beaten or killed for any perceived injustice or poorly chosen word in public just because of his/her perceived sexuality. That's a real example from my life, but still doesn't give me the right to dictate what someone else should enjoy in art or entertainment. Your argument doesn't really rebut my original statement that arts and entertainment aren't a human right and you don't get to tell me what I can enjoy or even have access to; nor can I tell someone else what they can and can't enjoy as art and entertainment. Your 'social justice' is misguided. You can't impact art and entertainment until you impact culture. One drives the other; history proves that statement correct. You want to have an impact on these video games? Get into education or youth development of some kind and start with them.
- thirdtruck 12y ago
  I was addressing how we are made to feel about each other, and the very real, material consequences of those feelings. To limit the discussion to just "enjoyment" of media ignores all the other ramifications. Art and entertainment are intrinsic parts of culture, and the medium by which it is perpetuated. To say that changing them won't change culture is to say that neither propaganda or advertising have any effect.
  - ivanca 12y ago
    They change culture but not the way you think it does; killing people in videogames don't make real people violent, Japan has some of the most gruesome films/games ever created, and despite that the murder rate in Japan is one of the lowest. You can't have your cake and eat it too, meaning: Are games part of capitalist entertainment or is interactive social teaching? Pretending to be both just ruins it for everyone, and that's easy to see and foresee, that's why people like Anita Sarkeesian badmouths games but makes no effort to create one herself.
    - thirdtruck 12y ago
      To take this away from political/ethical concerns for a moment, I just listened to an episode of the Writing Excuses podcast where the hosts (which include full-time writers) advocated having non-writers in their critique groups. They make the point that people who don't create a given work and still -- by virtue of their extensive engagement of the media -- can have suggest objective improvements to the writing (e.g. tweaking a scene to better relate the author's intended message). In short, you don't have to create a given media in order to be "worthy" of critiquing it, any more than any of us here on Hacker News have to create a country before we can be critical of politics.
      - ivanca 12y ago
        In no part I talked about being "worthy" or not, or any remotely similar; it is about how practical is to create the videogames she envisions, games about utopias are no fun. And their demands are blurry as well, do they want the main role in the most sold videogame? So they want to be the mass murder in the center of GTA? No, they also want to be related to positive traits.

Loughla 12y ago

Imagine being constantly portrayed as someone who can be beaten or killed for any perceived injustice or poorly chosen word in public just because of his/her perceived sexuality. That's a real example from my life, but still doesn't give me the right to dictate what someone else should enjoy in art or entertainment. Your argument doesn't really rebut my original statement that arts and entertainment aren't a human right and you don't get to tell me what I can enjoy or even have access to; nor can I tell someone else what they can and can't enjoy as art and entertainment. Your 'social justice' is misguided. You can't impact art and entertainment until you impact culture. One drives the other; history proves that statement correct. You want to have an impact on these video games? Get into education or youth development of some kind and start with them.

thirdtruck 12y ago
I was addressing how we are made to feel about each other, and the very real, material consequences of those feelings. To limit the discussion to just "enjoyment" of media ignores all the other ramifications. Art and entertainment are intrinsic parts of culture, and the medium by which it is perpetuated. To say that changing them won't change culture is to say that neither propaganda or advertising have any effect.
- ivanca 12y ago
  They change culture but not the way you think it does; killing people in videogames don't make real people violent, Japan has some of the most gruesome films/games ever created, and despite that the murder rate in Japan is one of the lowest. You can't have your cake and eat it too, meaning: Are games part of capitalist entertainment or is interactive social teaching? Pretending to be both just ruins it for everyone, and that's easy to see and foresee, that's why people like Anita Sarkeesian badmouths games but makes no effort to create one herself.
  - thirdtruck 12y ago
    To take this away from political/ethical concerns for a moment, I just listened to an episode of the Writing Excuses podcast where the hosts (which include full-time writers) advocated having non-writers in their critique groups. They make the point that people who don't create a given work and still -- by virtue of their extensive engagement of the media -- can have suggest objective improvements to the writing (e.g. tweaking a scene to better relate the author's intended message). In short, you don't have to create a given media in order to be "worthy" of critiquing it, any more than any of us here on Hacker News have to create a country before we can be critical of politics.
    - ivanca 12y ago
      In no part I talked about being "worthy" or not, or any remotely similar; it is about how practical is to create the videogames she envisions, games about utopias are no fun. And their demands are blurry as well, do they want the main role in the most sold videogame? So they want to be the mass murder in the center of GTA? No, they also want to be related to positive traits.