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The problem that Keyless SSL is solving is the need for a client to hand over their SSL keys to Cloudflare in order to use Cloudflare's services. It eliminates

The problem that Keyless SSL is solving is the need for a client to hand over their SSL keys to Cloudflare in order to use Cloudflare's services. It eliminates the risk that the key will be stolen from Cloudflare and used by the Bad Guys to set up a fake website to steal everyone's credentials. You might not perceive how big the benefit of this is but you're not the target market. I used to handle the SSL encryption keys (and server security) for the online trading systems of a global investment bank. In my opinion, not having to hand over the SSL keys removes a significant obstacle to banks using Cloudflare's services. Yes, Cloudflare will still be able to read and, in theory alter, the data flowing between the end-user and the client (I would not be surprised if a future enhancement to this mechanism enabled some kind of hashing/signing of the HTTP requests/responses, such that any attempt by Cloudflare to alter the content would be obvious) but that is an entirely different risk than the risk of your SSL keys being stolen.

mr_brown 12y ago
CDNs are used to deliver static, highly cacheable content, like assets, images, media content, stuff that will be delivered to many users. It is very rare that a website serves this type of content under the same domain as the dynamic content (think cdn1.whatnot.com, assets-myapp.com). In fact for applications with a lot of assets this is a must because of domain sharding and to avoid the overhead of sending the cookies on every single request. Since you need a different domain, you can (you don't have to) use a different certificate, so it's not a strech to use a different private key. Then there are the applications where security is more important than latency - online banking, payment gateways, tax filing. Those applications don't have too much cache-able content so they simply won't benefit from CDNs. I also don't see how is this faster. Sure, CloudFlare Keyless SSL is faster than serving the content yourself, but sending that packet over the internet is always going to be slower than not. So now I have a slower (compared to the CDN having my key), more complicated option that requires me to run an additional keyserver and doesn't provide me additional security. The only upside of this seems to be good PR. Depending how sensitive the content is, in fact if I could I would choose to deliver it over plain HTTP and sign it somehow. That would be best of both worlds. Edit: I admit I totally missed the point about DDoS protection.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  I think you may be missing that one of CloudFlare's key features is DDoS protection (and in fact it was a DDoS that initially caused the banks to approach them), including at the application layer. That functionality cannot be fulfilled without CloudFlare having access to the content of the communications, nor can any of their other application-layer security functions.
- jackgavigan 12y ago
  Cloudflare isn't just a CDN. They protect against DDoS attacks. That is what financial instututions are interested in. You should read eastdakota's blog post from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8334933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8334933

mr_brown 12y ago

CDNs are used to deliver static, highly cacheable content, like assets, images, media content, stuff that will be delivered to many users. It is very rare that a website serves this type of content under the same domain as the dynamic content (think cdn1.whatnot.com, assets-myapp.com). In fact for applications with a lot of assets this is a must because of domain sharding and to avoid the overhead of sending the cookies on every single request. Since you need a different domain, you can (you don't have to) use a different certificate, so it's not a strech to use a different private key. Then there are the applications where security is more important than latency - online banking, payment gateways, tax filing. Those applications don't have too much cache-able content so they simply won't benefit from CDNs. I also don't see how is this faster. Sure, CloudFlare Keyless SSL is faster than serving the content yourself, but sending that packet over the internet is always going to be slower than not. So now I have a slower (compared to the CDN having my key), more complicated option that requires me to run an additional keyserver and doesn't provide me additional security. The only upside of this seems to be good PR. Depending how sensitive the content is, in fact if I could I would choose to deliver it over plain HTTP and sign it somehow. That would be best of both worlds. Edit: I admit I totally missed the point about DDoS protection.

nknighthb 12y ago
I think you may be missing that one of CloudFlare's key features is DDoS protection (and in fact it was a DDoS that initially caused the banks to approach them), including at the application layer. That functionality cannot be fulfilled without CloudFlare having access to the content of the communications, nor can any of their other application-layer security functions.
jackgavigan 12y ago
Cloudflare isn't just a CDN. They protect against DDoS attacks. That is what financial instututions are interested in. You should read eastdakota's blog post from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8334933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8334933