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Thanks for including me on this. Thanks Adrian for the kind words. I think Adrian and I are in broad agreement as well. I've spoken to Gardner, he's a good guy

Thanks for including me on this. Thanks Adrian for the kind words. I think Adrian and I are in broad agreement as well. I've spoken to Gardner, he's a good guy. But he and I have some fundamental differences in opinion. Admittedly, some of it is semantics, but when you're talking about branding, I think semantics are critical. -To me, a brand is the emotional associations a customer has with a product/organization. Branding is our attempt to influence the customer into that desired emotional state. Hence, not really a relationship. (Adrian's point about a brand not being a logo, etc., is critical and something many people don't understand.) -I hesitate to call a brand a relationship, because that's not how a customer thinks, or ever will think. It's our job to build that emotional association. Also, ultimately, the customer gets to decide what the brand is (if we drop the ball). -To your point that started this thread, traditional branding processes don't work for lean orgs. Take too much time, too much money, don't provide any strategy or flexibility when encountering change (!), contain too many rules, limit your teams' ability to creatively solve problems in real-time. Loved adrian's point about the golf course. Happy to chat offline (or a hangout, or whatever) about this. Also, I'm working on a short summary of my interpretation of Lean Branding, will share when it's done.

decentrality 12y ago
WOW: Thanks for creating an account on HN to even reply to this thread :) I'm excited to hear your opinions, probably even have a video conversation once you've read The Lean Brand, because to me it seems like semantic gaps are extremely unfortunate for not only businesses, but non-profit organizations that need this muddy water cleared to be able to aggregate their values. On your points so far, having my copy of the book already, Jeremiah differentiates between Brand and Branding. Yes, there is the influence piece, but I wonder if there isn't a deeper priority difference and not only semantic. If you're in a relationship, don't you want the best for the other? And if your product is the best, don't you want your relationships to benefit from that? Seems more natural than "sales" or getting a customer to a desired state. In my view of influence, versus manipulation, there is a leadership aspect which is interested in the best of another, versus merely having an agenda. So depending on your idea of relationship, or your priorities, I see the semantic gap not existing. Does that make sense for you? If your idea is creating value, emotional and functional, and you are passionate about sharing the best you know with everyone you know, influence falls away and branding remains. The Lean Brand as a framework has ways of diagnosing passion and amplifying it, which is what I was looking for. As an entrepreneur I want organic connections that deepen, and to create awareness, but not create connections per se. If people share my values, we're connected. And if I listen, like we do in relationships, I will know the values of my audience and might need to learn to value the same thing or just exile myself from that audience. If I don't meet the need naturally, I should axe my product and choose another problem to solve, not work harder to get my customer into a certain emotion about me. I am excited to think more about this with you. Brand seems to be where so much is decided in the success of organizations. Seeing even the possibility of a FRAMEWORK for this nightmarish world of Brand changed my life as a visionary beyond any other change I've experienced literally in decades.
decentrality 12y ago
You got me thinking further, after my previous reply, so I thought outloud on Medium. I'd be happy to hear more of your thoughts, with this more complete reply to yours, once I further digested your perspective today: https://medium.com/@DonovanKeme/brand-as-relationship-vs-influence-376e8b6dce95 https://medium.com/@DonovanKeme/brand-as-relationship-vs-inf...

decentrality 12y ago

WOW: Thanks for creating an account on HN to even reply to this thread :) I'm excited to hear your opinions, probably even have a video conversation once you've read The Lean Brand, because to me it seems like semantic gaps are extremely unfortunate for not only businesses, but non-profit organizations that need this muddy water cleared to be able to aggregate their values. On your points so far, having my copy of the book already, Jeremiah differentiates between Brand and Branding. Yes, there is the influence piece, but I wonder if there isn't a deeper priority difference and not only semantic. If you're in a relationship, don't you want the best for the other? And if your product is the best, don't you want your relationships to benefit from that? Seems more natural than "sales" or getting a customer to a desired state. In my view of influence, versus manipulation, there is a leadership aspect which is interested in the best of another, versus merely having an agenda. So depending on your idea of relationship, or your priorities, I see the semantic gap not existing. Does that make sense for you? If your idea is creating value, emotional and functional, and you are passionate about sharing the best you know with everyone you know, influence falls away and branding remains. The Lean Brand as a framework has ways of diagnosing passion and amplifying it, which is what I was looking for. As an entrepreneur I want organic connections that deepen, and to create awareness, but not create connections per se. If people share my values, we're connected. And if I listen, like we do in relationships, I will know the values of my audience and might need to learn to value the same thing or just exile myself from that audience. If I don't meet the need naturally, I should axe my product and choose another problem to solve, not work harder to get my customer into a certain emotion about me. I am excited to think more about this with you. Brand seems to be where so much is decided in the success of organizations. Seeing even the possibility of a FRAMEWORK for this nightmarish world of Brand changed my life as a visionary beyond any other change I've experienced literally in decades.

decentrality 12y ago

You got me thinking further, after my previous reply, so I thought outloud on Medium. I'd be happy to hear more of your thoughts, with this more complete reply to yours, once I further digested your perspective today: https://medium.com/@DonovanKeme/brand-as-relationship-vs-influence-376e8b6dce95 https://medium.com/@DonovanKeme/brand-as-relationship-vs-inf...