3 ms·

While I don't know everything about either the US or NL prison systems, I have lived in both places and do know both a guard at a non-maximum security correctio

by furyg3 12y ago

While I don't know everything about either the US or NL prison systems, I have lived in both places and do know both a guard at a non-maximum security correctional facility in California, and several psychologists who work at TBS 'clinics' in NL. For non-Dutch, these TBS clinics are where many dangerous criminals can be held for longer terms than are normally associated with the punishment for a given crime, based on the fact that these people are mentally unstable and likely to commit a crime again. The differences in the criminal systems are huge. I agree that a great way to judge a society is by how it treats it's inmates, and that this could certainly be improved in Holland... but comparing the prison systems in the US to NL is just ridiculous. Sentences are incredibly short in NL compared to US. There is a focus on re-entry into society, not so in the US. Life-long imprisonment is extremely rare in NL, with most cases being people in TBS clinics under supervision and care of psychologists, psychiatrists, and social workers. There is no death penalty. The incarceration rate is 8x higher in the US. Violent criminals in the US are sent here: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/11/group-therapy-cage-match-incredible-pictures-from-inside-californias-san-quentin-prison/ http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/11/group-therapy-cage-m... Violent criminals in NL are sent here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/omroepbrabant/sets/72157624396008885/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/omroepbrabant/sets/72157624396...

yodsanklai 12y ago
And this is an infamous French prison in Marseille. http://www.europe1.fr/france/la-prison-des-baumettes-ce-cauchemar-1338169 http://www.europe1.fr/france/la-prison-des-baumettes-ce-cauc... The sad thing is that many (most?) people don't have problems with this as in their opinion prisoners are there for punishment anyway, and public money is always better spent elsewhere.
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
And that's the main difference between legal systems; NL is about re-education, US is about paying a debt to society (or keeping people off the street).
- tedks 12y ago
  Saying that prison sentences are about "paying a debt to society" is laughable. Three-strikes laws can make three fairly minor individual offenses add up to life imprisonment. Keeping anti-racist literature in your cell can land you in solitary confinement for decades. If there's anything the US prison terms are "about", it's kicking a whole class of people while they're down and unable to do anything about it. Any politician can promise to increase sentences and appear by doing so to support "law and order" or the appropriate amount of crypto-racism or whatever it is people support these days. Felons are stripped of their ability to vote in some states, so there's literally no chance for retaliation and thus literally nothing to lose, and potential to gain. As a result, prison sentences are huge and there's no way to reduce them politically. American prison sentences betray the basic lack of empathy of American politicians.

by furyg3 12y ago

yodsanklai 12y ago

And this is an infamous French prison in Marseille. http://www.europe1.fr/france/la-prison-des-baumettes-ce-cauchemar-1338169 http://www.europe1.fr/france/la-prison-des-baumettes-ce-cauc... The sad thing is that many (most?) people don't have problems with this as in their opinion prisoners are there for punishment anyway, and public money is always better spent elsewhere.

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

And that's the main difference between legal systems; NL is about re-education, US is about paying a debt to society (or keeping people off the street).

tedks 12y ago
Saying that prison sentences are about "paying a debt to society" is laughable. Three-strikes laws can make three fairly minor individual offenses add up to life imprisonment. Keeping anti-racist literature in your cell can land you in solitary confinement for decades. If there's anything the US prison terms are "about", it's kicking a whole class of people while they're down and unable to do anything about it. Any politician can promise to increase sentences and appear by doing so to support "law and order" or the appropriate amount of crypto-racism or whatever it is people support these days. Felons are stripped of their ability to vote in some states, so there's literally no chance for retaliation and thus literally nothing to lose, and potential to gain. As a result, prison sentences are huge and there's no way to reduce them politically. American prison sentences betray the basic lack of empathy of American politicians.