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Huh? The above comment stated that murder is a very small percentage of crimes, not that murderers are a very small percentage of incarcerated inmates. The comp

Huh? The above comment stated that murder is a very small percentage of crimes, not that murderers are a very small percentage of incarcerated inmates. The comparatively high percentage of people in jail for murder is because murder is 1) more thoroughly investigated and 2) more harshly punished. In 2010, roughly 1% of violent crimes were murders. [1] Combine this with nonviolent crimes, I'd say that's plausibly a "very small percent". Not that I'm trying to say murder is not a problem. Killing people is bad, 'mkay. 1. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/c...

tptacek 12y ago
The comment you're referring to was making a claim about incarceration.
- alexbecker 12y ago
  It made several claims about incarcerations, but the only claim about homicide I saw was "Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes."
  - tptacek 12y ago
    I don't even know how the point about murder as a percentage of all crime even makes sense in this thread. What, do you imagine, is the point he was trying to make?
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      That a vastly larger number of people have been incarcerated for victimless crimes than for murder. Your objections would make sense if the sentences for murder and your median victimless crime were roughly equal. An incarceration for a victimless adult crime, or for a 'status offense' as a juvenile, is an excellent start to eventually turn a harmless person into a murderer. By reducing the number of crippling interventions into the lives of people who haven't committed significant harm, you likely reduce the population of murderers in prison 20 years from now.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        I'm not following. The overwhelming majority of inmates are not imprisoned for victimless crimes.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        The overwhelming majority of current inmates are not imprisoned for victimless crimes. If the average sentence for murder were 10 years, and the average sentence for drug possession were 3 months, you would have to incarcerate 40 times as many people for drug possession than for murder to have equal numbers of both that are currently incarcerated. The 3 month drug arrest is enough to keep you from getting a job, from getting college loans, and long enough to get you fairly deeply connected in a gang culture. edit: can't quickly find stats, but the national arrest chart on http://prostitutionprocon.org/arrests.htm http://prostitutionprocon.org/arrests.htm shows arrest numbers from 1994 to 2004. For 2004, the combined number for rape, robbery, and murder is around 120K, and aggravated assault adds another 380K. Drug violations accounted for 1.5M. edit2: http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezaucr/asp/ucr_display.asp http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezaucr/asp/ucr_display.asp
        tptacek 12y ago
        Most inmates are incarcerated for property crimes, the sentences for which are not 10 years, but rather more like the sentences for drug crimes. It's a good point, the turnover in prison population for lesser crimes compared to that of murder convicts, but it still doesn't support the argument upthread.
    - joesmo 12y ago
      Murder is insignificant in the prison reform discussion. As pointed above, it's a tiny percentage of all crime. Unless you want to suggest releasing murders (as another article on here did, though I disagree), there is nothing that can be done there. What can be done is to focus on the people that shouldn't be in jail. Change laws that criminalize victimless offenses. Release current prisoners. Those are real action items, and even if it is only a quarter million, that is still about an eight of the total prison population. End parole / probation for such offenses as that is likely to lead to people going back to jail. This is not an insignificant number. Releasing these people will make a difference, more than anything else I've seen suggested.

tptacek 12y ago

The comment you're referring to was making a claim about incarceration.

alexbecker 12y ago
It made several claims about incarcerations, but the only claim about homicide I saw was "Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes."
- tptacek 12y ago
  I don't even know how the point about murder as a percentage of all crime even makes sense in this thread. What, do you imagine, is the point he was trying to make?
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    That a vastly larger number of people have been incarcerated for victimless crimes than for murder. Your objections would make sense if the sentences for murder and your median victimless crime were roughly equal. An incarceration for a victimless adult crime, or for a 'status offense' as a juvenile, is an excellent start to eventually turn a harmless person into a murderer. By reducing the number of crippling interventions into the lives of people who haven't committed significant harm, you likely reduce the population of murderers in prison 20 years from now.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      I'm not following. The overwhelming majority of inmates are not imprisoned for victimless crimes.
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        The overwhelming majority of current inmates are not imprisoned for victimless crimes. If the average sentence for murder were 10 years, and the average sentence for drug possession were 3 months, you would have to incarcerate 40 times as many people for drug possession than for murder to have equal numbers of both that are currently incarcerated. The 3 month drug arrest is enough to keep you from getting a job, from getting college loans, and long enough to get you fairly deeply connected in a gang culture. edit: can't quickly find stats, but the national arrest chart on http://prostitutionprocon.org/arrests.htm http://prostitutionprocon.org/arrests.htm shows arrest numbers from 1994 to 2004. For 2004, the combined number for rape, robbery, and murder is around 120K, and aggravated assault adds another 380K. Drug violations accounted for 1.5M. edit2: http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezaucr/asp/ucr_display.asp http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezaucr/asp/ucr_display.asp
        tptacek 12y ago
        Most inmates are incarcerated for property crimes, the sentences for which are not 10 years, but rather more like the sentences for drug crimes. It's a good point, the turnover in prison population for lesser crimes compared to that of murder convicts, but it still doesn't support the argument upthread.
  - joesmo 12y ago
    Murder is insignificant in the prison reform discussion. As pointed above, it's a tiny percentage of all crime. Unless you want to suggest releasing murders (as another article on here did, though I disagree), there is nothing that can be done there. What can be done is to focus on the people that shouldn't be in jail. Change laws that criminalize victimless offenses. Release current prisoners. Those are real action items, and even if it is only a quarter million, that is still about an eight of the total prison population. End parole / probation for such offenses as that is likely to lead to people going back to jail. This is not an insignificant number. Releasing these people will make a difference, more than anything else I've seen suggested.