9 ms·

Song of the Introvert

95 points by filament 12y ago

kaoD 12y ago
Completely off-topic but I'm very curious. Why is wdewind's comment marked as [dead]? It's his first dead comment and seems completely respectful. Did it trigger some kind of bot detection or something? Makes me think if any of my comments were marked as [dead] without me realizing too. Including this one I guess :P
pm 12y ago
I dunno, I'm supposed to be an introvert but I'm chaos incarnate. What does that make me?
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  ADHD?
  - pm 12y ago
    I certainly have that tendency, perhaps the external chaos is a result of my decision-making, and not out of my control as much as I think.
- precisioncoder 12y ago
  Some introverts are prone to rushes of sociability, what I heard that really clicked with me was that it's how you relax or recharge. If you relax or recharge best alone then you're basically introverted, if you relax or recharge best by being social you're basically extroverted. I can be incredibly social and am prone to frenzies of activity that cause many to think of me as an extroverted person. Afterwards however I need to retreat to my space and spend a lot of time alone to recharge, also if I don't get that alone time for too long I end up run down and worn out. It's just part of the fun. I would definitely say there are pros and cons to both sides the biggest seem to be that introverted people lose out since we are such a socially connected society while gaining in independent action. Extroverts seem to effortlessly maintain social connections that they often can use as resources however often suffer from loneliness or fear of being alone. These are purely my own experiences of course, YMMV. In any case learning to relax and your own particular way of doing it is important no matter what category you feel most comfortable under.
  - pm 12y ago
    I get that. There are times I need to relax by being alone. Then I'm the Earth flipping magnetic poles and being alone irks the shit out of me. It is most annoying.
darkxanthos 12y ago
I've been two different kinds of introverts over the course of my life. One is as rands describes it: A person in their cave not wanting their life to be disturbed. The other kind is the type who can and understands how to interact with you, but usually would rather be deep in thought solving my latest puzzle. But those times when I make room for socializing... woof. Those are some good times. :)
- boredprogrammer 12y ago
  i just like quiet and solitude. people are so noisy and they are always talking and asking so many questions. and some of them despise quiet so much that they will fill any silent patches with artificial noise - radios or talking to themselves or humming, or tapping or whatever. and i am fine with this except when they feel that they must force their noise onto everybody else which they so often do.
  - Cthulhu_ 12y ago
    This is an annoying trait my family has, it's becoming more noticeable when you're away from them for a while. Can't they just sit still for five minutes? Not that I enjoy silence, mind; at home I usually have music or the TV on shortly after I arrive.
JTon 12y ago
In the article the author refers to his want to return to his cave. It made me think, today's cave is connected to the web. Not only is there an endless archive of knowledge in this cave, but it also can be a social place (via online collaboration). I'm wondering, what fellow introverts did in their caves before caves were connected to the web? Were caves filled with library books? How did we satisfy the need for collaboration while being in the cave?
- andyidsinga 12y ago
  fidonet and bbs's before that pen-pals before that ( help me out here...)
  - PeterWhittaker 12y ago
    I don't know why you were downvoted, I think you were spot on. I'll bet that a lot of history's great letter-writers were introverts. Much of this sort of collaboration took place over weeks and months instead of seconds and minutes, and took place asynchronously. I'd be willing to bet that many early members of the Royal Society were highly social introverts - Society meetings satisfied their need for synchronous collaboration, but most of their work was done alone or in small groups.
    - andyidsinga 12y ago
      i usually get votes down for humor ...but i was most serious in this case. im an introvert, was a fidonet node and an avid BBSer.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    Books, books, books.
  - bcoates 12y ago
    There was (is?) a whole mail-relay postal service culture. In the mid-90s my grandmother was a node in semi-formalized mailing list system that more than anything resembled a mimeograph version of Reddit. you'd get packets of stuff (jokes, photos, recipes, poems, stories, coupons, what-have-you) from people and sort of mix and match them and send them on to other people in your mailing list who'd like them, copying the good stuff and pruning the uninteresting. I remember seeing literally the same fw: fw: fw: jokes that were circulating on BBSes at the time being circulated on hand-typed pages.
iamthepieman 12y ago
I don't think I fit in any of these boxes. Before I ever took the Myers Briggs or read Quiet[1] or people started talking a lot about I and E and other shortcuts I realized that I was different than most of my friends and that I needed to change. I was 14 and wanted to be able to carry on wide ranging conversations in the effortless manner that many of my friends and the adults in my life could. So I watched an older brother of a classmate(he was a senior in HS) who could talk for hours about anything. I watched people at church and at family gatherings and community celebrations like 4th of July parades and Labor Day barbecues. And I learned how to make small talk and how to engage people around me and I learned that I could find out interesting things about people and that many times you had to go through a ritual of small talk, sometimes for months worth of meetings and greetings and regularly seeing someone before you really learned anything about them. And I learned that usually it was worth it. And eventually as I got older and became an adult I learned to tell when someone just didn't know how to talk about something difficult and so they talked about nothing and everything instead and how to read them and help them just by talking something over with them. And I'm still learning. [1]http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/ http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Sounds like an interesting hobby, for some. As an introvert, I'm sure I'd prefer collecting stamps.
- antimagic 12y ago
  To quote Jane Austen: "I certainly have not the talent which some people possess," said Darcy, "of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done." "My fingers," said Elizabeth, "do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women's do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault -- because I would not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman's of superior execution."
andyidsinga 12y ago
as an alternative, i've heard these definitions of introvert / extravert: an introvert is someone who recharges their social energy by going off somewhere familiar and likely alone. An extrovert is someone who recharges by going off to be with lots of people and commotion. ...what i like about these definitions is that neither are anti-social. both can be "the life of the party" or "the quieter ones". ...is more about where your charging cradle is.
- gadders 12y ago
  That fits better with me as well. I'm not shy, or socially awkward, I just quite often would rather be at home reading a book to relax instead of "socialising".
  - PeterWhittaker 12y ago
    Ditto: I tell jokes, stories, laugh with friends and family, and jump in to jump-start gatherings that seem inappropriately quiet(1)... ...and then I go clean up the kitchen, because I really, really need to get away from everyone. At work, it can be similar: A long productive meeting, lots of good stuff accomplished (planning, design, what-have-you) and BAM! my buffers are full, I need to get away, recharge my batteries and drain those buffers. Many others want to keep going, I want to be away from the world. For at least a few minutes. (1) Yes, "inappropriately" is subjective, and yes, mistakes are made - but fewer mistakes are made than gatherings enlivened - and memories are always made!
    - gadders 12y ago
      Business trips are the worst. You spend all day in meetings in people and then they (entirely good naturedly) invite you out for a meal in the evening. No thanks. I'd rather be sitting in my hotel room in my underwear eating room service and reading my Kindle.
- epochwolf 12y ago
  This fits better for me. I have two modes: I can either be "the life of the party" as I am right now. I try to spend most of my weekends out with friends, never being alone and I get antsy when am faced with a weekend alone. I spend my weeknights relaxing and cleaning. Or give me a project I'm interested in, and you won't see me during the weekends for months. I'll be content to go out for a meet or two during the week but any large block of time will be consumed by my hobby. No matter which extreme I'm in, I need a quiet place and a solitary activity to recharge. When I'm the life of the party, it's quiet week nights alone. When I'm on a project, it's the in the evening on the weekends after working on a project all day.
edw519 12y ago
I am fascinated by how you punctuate your sentences with your hands. You pause for as long as it takes to makes sure you are going to say something of value. Sometimes these pauses are maddeningly long. You are fiercely optimistic and state outlandish impossible things. You are fearless in giving feedback to strangers. You are less fearless, but you can deliver the same feedback with a momentary glance. It’s fascinating how all of you have built all of your systems to get through your day. I am fascinated because… Even though I believe I can do almost anything, I can't imagine myself being like you... Until I learned how to write. I write like you talk. When you call, I email. When you skype, I tweet. When you take to the room, I take to the forum. That's my response, because... I am an introvert.
gjvc 12y ago
just another self-indulgent blogger (but I repeat myself)
- angersock 12y ago
  You're just jealous because your website is down.
  - gjvc 12y ago
    well played, sir
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  I don't downvote as a matter of principle, but, wow, did I come close on this comment. If I feel I need to communicate something, then practically by definition I am being selfish, self-indulgent when I do so. The world isn't asking for my comments, it doesn't need them, I make them because I WANT to. But sometimes, sometimes, something one of us writes or records because we need to, because we want to, sometimes that bit of self-indulgence strikes a chord with someone else, resonates with them. We are many who have been influenced by the writings of a cave dweller, by songs, by books, by poems, by encountering someone else's self-indulgent expression of an emotion that was for us inchoate until we found the other's words. And then we understand ourselves. I praise the self-indulgence of every writer who has ever dared expose themselves with words. I sing the glory of it.
arafalov 12y ago
I love this one. I recognize myself in most of this (and linked) descriptions (GTD notebook, lol). Except for the bits I don't. But the thing is, the bits that do not reflect me are because I had life experiences that taught me the value of skills to acquire those other habits. For example, I am no longer afraid of small talk (most of the time) and random people. But, I used to be. I know exactly when it changed. When dotcom bubble burst, I chose to do a senior tech support job for three years. Going into the job, I had no people skills. Leaving it, I had plenty and kept developing. Turned out to be a super-useful skill in our "public communication shy" general community. And by combining ability to communicate with geek's ability to connect the dots and see the critical communication path, I can do things that are hard for people with only one of those skills. Of course, now I see pretty much all of my projects/activities as "Hero's Journey". But that's another discussion.
wdewind 12y ago
You know you really don't see extraverts self identifying so hard. I think a lot of people, programmers especially, are just shy and have poor social skills. I am an introvert, and for years I had shitty social skills (stuff like Rands talks about, like being unable to figure out eye contact). This stuff doesn't mean you are an introvert, and it certainly doesn't make you special, like most of these articles seem to imply. I worked really hard to fix these things, and I'm still introverted, but I'm not longer shy like I used to be. Instead of figuring out whether or not you are an introvert or an extravert (a label which truly does not matter, and is ultimately a massively leaky abstraction and an intellectual masturbation), ask yourself if you are currently happy, and if not if changing your social life might have an impact on that. It's incredibly damaging and limiting for people to just be like "I'm an introvert, I guess I just can't be around people that much." It's not true: it's trainable thing and you can fairly easily build your tolerance. If you have extremely poor social skills it's likely extremely draining to be around people, which can become a vicious cycle. Don't let it! This is a community built for entrepreneurs, and being an entrepreneur is hugely about being willing to change. Don't lock yourself into a static identity, and certainly don't accept that identity as a limitation.
ctdonath 12y ago
Way off. Maybe it fits some, but is far from definitive "introvert". Maybe some are fear-driven, but author seems to miss the point that many (most?) introverts just LIKE solitude, communicating thru contemplative mediums, are more about doing than talking, and just find smalltalk insufferably boring/pointless. Post sounds more like a non-introvert trying to understand & explain, having concluded "well, they're just afraid of disruptive contact with others." No, we just don't like expending resources on the uninteresting.
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  Yeah, I'm not even sure how much it applies to the author himself; IIRC, Rands was a team leader for a long while, doing more with people than with - for example - code and notebooks.
  - blazingfrog2 12y ago
    After a long time at Apple and then Palantir, he recently started as Head of Engineering at Pinterest so, yeah, a team leader. http://recode.net/2014/06/10/pinterest-hires-long-time-apple-execs-to-lead-engineering-and-product-design/ http://recode.net/2014/06/10/pinterest-hires-long-time-apple...
- thisGuysAccount 12y ago
  Gotta agree that it's way off "introvert" and way closer to "person with control and boundary concerns, trying to define 50% of the population's behavior" I'm not really an introvert, but I seem like one. It's because I have a _lot_ going on, and parts of it require quiet time to do.
- gr3yh47 12y ago
  Technically introversion just means that being social is more energy expensive and being alone is how you recharge. Habitual social avoidance is something different altogether
- noxn 12y ago
  I'd think this fits people with ASD/Aspergers. I have such a diagnosis and I thought it fit me pretty well.
fideloper 12y ago
This isn't describing an introvert in any way. I'd guess this is more along the autism spectrum, but even that's an inflammatory statement said from someone who doesn't have the proper background to speculate (probably like most of us here).
larrydag 12y ago
Song of the Extrovert You are interesting. I like the stuff that you bring to the table. I like your Cave. Can I see your Cave? Can I show you my Cave? I want to share the ideas from Cave with your ideas. You are frusturating. Why don't you return my emails? I share your passion. I share your ideas. I just want to engage with you to create something bigger and better. I enjoy learning and sharing. I feel that we can learn more together. Why don't you just give me a shot? I'm willing to take risks but you are stuck in your own comfortable situation. Let's break on through together.
- beagle90 12y ago
  ...said the startup marketing director to the coder.
  - angersock 12y ago
    So sadly, sadly true. And note that, in business, you need the former--the latter is a nice bonus.
deleted 12y ago
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kaoD 12y ago
I seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm pretty good at smalltalk, sociable, do not dislike eye contact, etc. but most people seem... boring. So you went shopping? Huh, I don't care. But tell me something interesting and, oh boy, I can chat for hours. It's like I had already beaten the game and were patiently waiting for the sequel. Fortunately DLCs are released once in a while ;)
- angersock 12y ago
  Conversely, if you can't at least feign interest in the minor minutiae of my life, why the fuck would I want to share anything I'm actually passionate about with you? Would be a waste.
  - kaoD 12y ago
    I don't follow your logic. Why would it be a waste? Wouldn't it actually be a waste of both your resources and mine if I feigned interest? You'll keep talking, and my mind will keep drifting. I understand smalltalk is necessary to break the ice. I'm perfectly fine with the "How you doin'? Fine. It's hot today, isn't it? Well last week was worse!" exchange. I can even understand the "I went shopping" comment. What I don't really welcome is a walk through your shopping day.
- jes5199 12y ago
  People do tend to have boring conversations, but individual people are almost always Extremely Interesting if you can get to the layer underneath the standard communication protocol.
calinet6 12y ago
I'm increasingly thinking that the E/I distinction is not useful and maybe even harmful. It causes too many assumptions and generalizations that aren't valid classifications or often even close to it. This is a good example. Personalities are complex. People can be introverted or extroverted. They can also have personality disorders and deficiencies independent of the two. I think generalizing and pigeon holing either introverts or extroverts does them a disservice. Above all, people are incredibly malleable and adaptable. Most people are somewhere in the middle, or go through several states of personality based on their experience and stage of life. I know I have.
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mattlondon 12y ago
Not introverted, more like Aspergers or obsessive-complsive I would think. This description covers some aspects of introversion, but most of it was not typical introversion. You can be a messy, uninterested, boring and unintelligent slob of an introvert - it doesn't matter. Introversion/Extroversion is not a polar-thing like gender anyway. I dislike it when you do tests/training/exercises or whatever and they declare "You are Introverted" or "You are Extroverted" like it is a single binary option that you can only ever be one of the other. I've always thought of it as more shades of grey (in both directions).
patrickmay 12y ago
Definitely not accurate. My wife is one of the most extroverted introverts I know. She loves spending time with other people and doesn't consider them threatening in the slightest. She just needs her downtime to recover from the energy she expends in being social.

95 points by filament 12y ago

kaoD 12y ago

Completely off-topic but I'm very curious. Why is wdewind's comment marked as [dead]? It's his first dead comment and seems completely respectful. Did it trigger some kind of bot detection or something? Makes me think if any of my comments were marked as [dead] without me realizing too. Including this one I guess :P

pm 12y ago

I dunno, I'm supposed to be an introvert but I'm chaos incarnate. What does that make me?

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
ADHD?
- pm 12y ago
  I certainly have that tendency, perhaps the external chaos is a result of my decision-making, and not out of my control as much as I think.
precisioncoder 12y ago
Some introverts are prone to rushes of sociability, what I heard that really clicked with me was that it's how you relax or recharge. If you relax or recharge best alone then you're basically introverted, if you relax or recharge best by being social you're basically extroverted. I can be incredibly social and am prone to frenzies of activity that cause many to think of me as an extroverted person. Afterwards however I need to retreat to my space and spend a lot of time alone to recharge, also if I don't get that alone time for too long I end up run down and worn out. It's just part of the fun. I would definitely say there are pros and cons to both sides the biggest seem to be that introverted people lose out since we are such a socially connected society while gaining in independent action. Extroverts seem to effortlessly maintain social connections that they often can use as resources however often suffer from loneliness or fear of being alone. These are purely my own experiences of course, YMMV. In any case learning to relax and your own particular way of doing it is important no matter what category you feel most comfortable under.
- pm 12y ago
  I get that. There are times I need to relax by being alone. Then I'm the Earth flipping magnetic poles and being alone irks the shit out of me. It is most annoying.

darkxanthos 12y ago

I've been two different kinds of introverts over the course of my life. One is as rands describes it: A person in their cave not wanting their life to be disturbed. The other kind is the type who can and understands how to interact with you, but usually would rather be deep in thought solving my latest puzzle. But those times when I make room for socializing... woof. Those are some good times. :)

boredprogrammer 12y ago
i just like quiet and solitude. people are so noisy and they are always talking and asking so many questions. and some of them despise quiet so much that they will fill any silent patches with artificial noise - radios or talking to themselves or humming, or tapping or whatever. and i am fine with this except when they feel that they must force their noise onto everybody else which they so often do.
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  This is an annoying trait my family has, it's becoming more noticeable when you're away from them for a while. Can't they just sit still for five minutes? Not that I enjoy silence, mind; at home I usually have music or the TV on shortly after I arrive.

JTon 12y ago

In the article the author refers to his want to return to his cave. It made me think, today's cave is connected to the web. Not only is there an endless archive of knowledge in this cave, but it also can be a social place (via online collaboration). I'm wondering, what fellow introverts did in their caves before caves were connected to the web? Were caves filled with library books? How did we satisfy the need for collaboration while being in the cave?

andyidsinga 12y ago
fidonet and bbs's before that pen-pals before that ( help me out here...)
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  I don't know why you were downvoted, I think you were spot on. I'll bet that a lot of history's great letter-writers were introverts. Much of this sort of collaboration took place over weeks and months instead of seconds and minutes, and took place asynchronously. I'd be willing to bet that many early members of the Royal Society were highly social introverts - Society meetings satisfied their need for synchronous collaboration, but most of their work was done alone or in small groups.
  - andyidsinga 12y ago
    i usually get votes down for humor ...but i was most serious in this case. im an introvert, was a fidonet node and an avid BBSer.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  Books, books, books.
- bcoates 12y ago
  There was (is?) a whole mail-relay postal service culture. In the mid-90s my grandmother was a node in semi-formalized mailing list system that more than anything resembled a mimeograph version of Reddit. you'd get packets of stuff (jokes, photos, recipes, poems, stories, coupons, what-have-you) from people and sort of mix and match them and send them on to other people in your mailing list who'd like them, copying the good stuff and pruning the uninteresting. I remember seeing literally the same fw: fw: fw: jokes that were circulating on BBSes at the time being circulated on hand-typed pages.

iamthepieman 12y ago

I don't think I fit in any of these boxes. Before I ever took the Myers Briggs or read Quiet[1] or people started talking a lot about I and E and other shortcuts I realized that I was different than most of my friends and that I needed to change. I was 14 and wanted to be able to carry on wide ranging conversations in the effortless manner that many of my friends and the adults in my life could. So I watched an older brother of a classmate(he was a senior in HS) who could talk for hours about anything. I watched people at church and at family gatherings and community celebrations like 4th of July parades and Labor Day barbecues. And I learned how to make small talk and how to engage people around me and I learned that I could find out interesting things about people and that many times you had to go through a ritual of small talk, sometimes for months worth of meetings and greetings and regularly seeing someone before you really learned anything about them. And I learned that usually it was worth it. And eventually as I got older and became an adult I learned to tell when someone just didn't know how to talk about something difficult and so they talked about nothing and everything instead and how to read them and help them just by talking something over with them. And I'm still learning. [1]http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/ http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/about-the-book/

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Sounds like an interesting hobby, for some. As an introvert, I'm sure I'd prefer collecting stamps.
antimagic 12y ago
To quote Jane Austen: "I certainly have not the talent which some people possess," said Darcy, "of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done." "My fingers," said Elizabeth, "do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women's do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault -- because I would not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman's of superior execution."

andyidsinga 12y ago

as an alternative, i've heard these definitions of introvert / extravert: an introvert is someone who recharges their social energy by going off somewhere familiar and likely alone. An extrovert is someone who recharges by going off to be with lots of people and commotion. ...what i like about these definitions is that neither are anti-social. both can be "the life of the party" or "the quieter ones". ...is more about where your charging cradle is.

gadders 12y ago
That fits better with me as well. I'm not shy, or socially awkward, I just quite often would rather be at home reading a book to relax instead of "socialising".
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  Ditto: I tell jokes, stories, laugh with friends and family, and jump in to jump-start gatherings that seem inappropriately quiet(1)... ...and then I go clean up the kitchen, because I really, really need to get away from everyone. At work, it can be similar: A long productive meeting, lots of good stuff accomplished (planning, design, what-have-you) and BAM! my buffers are full, I need to get away, recharge my batteries and drain those buffers. Many others want to keep going, I want to be away from the world. For at least a few minutes. (1) Yes, "inappropriately" is subjective, and yes, mistakes are made - but fewer mistakes are made than gatherings enlivened - and memories are always made!
  - gadders 12y ago
    Business trips are the worst. You spend all day in meetings in people and then they (entirely good naturedly) invite you out for a meal in the evening. No thanks. I'd rather be sitting in my hotel room in my underwear eating room service and reading my Kindle.
epochwolf 12y ago
This fits better for me. I have two modes: I can either be "the life of the party" as I am right now. I try to spend most of my weekends out with friends, never being alone and I get antsy when am faced with a weekend alone. I spend my weeknights relaxing and cleaning. Or give me a project I'm interested in, and you won't see me during the weekends for months. I'll be content to go out for a meet or two during the week but any large block of time will be consumed by my hobby. No matter which extreme I'm in, I need a quiet place and a solitary activity to recharge. When I'm the life of the party, it's quiet week nights alone. When I'm on a project, it's the in the evening on the weekends after working on a project all day.

edw519 12y ago

I am fascinated by how you punctuate your sentences with your hands. You pause for as long as it takes to makes sure you are going to say something of value. Sometimes these pauses are maddeningly long. You are fiercely optimistic and state outlandish impossible things. You are fearless in giving feedback to strangers. You are less fearless, but you can deliver the same feedback with a momentary glance. It’s fascinating how all of you have built all of your systems to get through your day. I am fascinated because… Even though I believe I can do almost anything, I can't imagine myself being like you... Until I learned how to write. I write like you talk. When you call, I email. When you skype, I tweet. When you take to the room, I take to the forum. That's my response, because... I am an introvert.

gjvc 12y ago

just another self-indulgent blogger (but I repeat myself)

angersock 12y ago
You're just jealous because your website is down.
- gjvc 12y ago
  well played, sir
PeterWhittaker 12y ago
I don't downvote as a matter of principle, but, wow, did I come close on this comment. If I feel I need to communicate something, then practically by definition I am being selfish, self-indulgent when I do so. The world isn't asking for my comments, it doesn't need them, I make them because I WANT to. But sometimes, sometimes, something one of us writes or records because we need to, because we want to, sometimes that bit of self-indulgence strikes a chord with someone else, resonates with them. We are many who have been influenced by the writings of a cave dweller, by songs, by books, by poems, by encountering someone else's self-indulgent expression of an emotion that was for us inchoate until we found the other's words. And then we understand ourselves. I praise the self-indulgence of every writer who has ever dared expose themselves with words. I sing the glory of it.

arafalov 12y ago

I love this one. I recognize myself in most of this (and linked) descriptions (GTD notebook, lol). Except for the bits I don't. But the thing is, the bits that do not reflect me are because I had life experiences that taught me the value of skills to acquire those other habits. For example, I am no longer afraid of small talk (most of the time) and random people. But, I used to be. I know exactly when it changed. When dotcom bubble burst, I chose to do a senior tech support job for three years. Going into the job, I had no people skills. Leaving it, I had plenty and kept developing. Turned out to be a super-useful skill in our "public communication shy" general community. And by combining ability to communicate with geek's ability to connect the dots and see the critical communication path, I can do things that are hard for people with only one of those skills. Of course, now I see pretty much all of my projects/activities as "Hero's Journey". But that's another discussion.

wdewind 12y ago

You know you really don't see extraverts self identifying so hard. I think a lot of people, programmers especially, are just shy and have poor social skills. I am an introvert, and for years I had shitty social skills (stuff like Rands talks about, like being unable to figure out eye contact). This stuff doesn't mean you are an introvert, and it certainly doesn't make you special, like most of these articles seem to imply. I worked really hard to fix these things, and I'm still introverted, but I'm not longer shy like I used to be. Instead of figuring out whether or not you are an introvert or an extravert (a label which truly does not matter, and is ultimately a massively leaky abstraction and an intellectual masturbation), ask yourself if you are currently happy, and if not if changing your social life might have an impact on that. It's incredibly damaging and limiting for people to just be like "I'm an introvert, I guess I just can't be around people that much." It's not true: it's trainable thing and you can fairly easily build your tolerance. If you have extremely poor social skills it's likely extremely draining to be around people, which can become a vicious cycle. Don't let it! This is a community built for entrepreneurs, and being an entrepreneur is hugely about being willing to change. Don't lock yourself into a static identity, and certainly don't accept that identity as a limitation.

ctdonath 12y ago

Way off. Maybe it fits some, but is far from definitive "introvert". Maybe some are fear-driven, but author seems to miss the point that many (most?) introverts just LIKE solitude, communicating thru contemplative mediums, are more about doing than talking, and just find smalltalk insufferably boring/pointless. Post sounds more like a non-introvert trying to understand & explain, having concluded "well, they're just afraid of disruptive contact with others." No, we just don't like expending resources on the uninteresting.

Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Yeah, I'm not even sure how much it applies to the author himself; IIRC, Rands was a team leader for a long while, doing more with people than with - for example - code and notebooks.
- blazingfrog2 12y ago
  After a long time at Apple and then Palantir, he recently started as Head of Engineering at Pinterest so, yeah, a team leader. http://recode.net/2014/06/10/pinterest-hires-long-time-apple-execs-to-lead-engineering-and-product-design/ http://recode.net/2014/06/10/pinterest-hires-long-time-apple...
thisGuysAccount 12y ago
Gotta agree that it's way off "introvert" and way closer to "person with control and boundary concerns, trying to define 50% of the population's behavior" I'm not really an introvert, but I seem like one. It's because I have a _lot_ going on, and parts of it require quiet time to do.
gr3yh47 12y ago
Technically introversion just means that being social is more energy expensive and being alone is how you recharge. Habitual social avoidance is something different altogether
noxn 12y ago
I'd think this fits people with ASD/Aspergers. I have such a diagnosis and I thought it fit me pretty well.

fideloper 12y ago

This isn't describing an introvert in any way. I'd guess this is more along the autism spectrum, but even that's an inflammatory statement said from someone who doesn't have the proper background to speculate (probably like most of us here).

larrydag 12y ago

Song of the Extrovert You are interesting. I like the stuff that you bring to the table. I like your Cave. Can I see your Cave? Can I show you my Cave? I want to share the ideas from Cave with your ideas. You are frusturating. Why don't you return my emails? I share your passion. I share your ideas. I just want to engage with you to create something bigger and better. I enjoy learning and sharing. I feel that we can learn more together. Why don't you just give me a shot? I'm willing to take risks but you are stuck in your own comfortable situation. Let's break on through together.

beagle90 12y ago
...said the startup marketing director to the coder.
- angersock 12y ago
  So sadly, sadly true. And note that, in business, you need the former--the latter is a nice bonus.

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kaoD 12y ago

I seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm pretty good at smalltalk, sociable, do not dislike eye contact, etc. but most people seem... boring. So you went shopping? Huh, I don't care. But tell me something interesting and, oh boy, I can chat for hours. It's like I had already beaten the game and were patiently waiting for the sequel. Fortunately DLCs are released once in a while ;)

angersock 12y ago
Conversely, if you can't at least feign interest in the minor minutiae of my life, why the fuck would I want to share anything I'm actually passionate about with you? Would be a waste.
- kaoD 12y ago
  I don't follow your logic. Why would it be a waste? Wouldn't it actually be a waste of both your resources and mine if I feigned interest? You'll keep talking, and my mind will keep drifting. I understand smalltalk is necessary to break the ice. I'm perfectly fine with the "How you doin'? Fine. It's hot today, isn't it? Well last week was worse!" exchange. I can even understand the "I went shopping" comment. What I don't really welcome is a walk through your shopping day.
jes5199 12y ago
People do tend to have boring conversations, but individual people are almost always Extremely Interesting if you can get to the layer underneath the standard communication protocol.

calinet6 12y ago

I'm increasingly thinking that the E/I distinction is not useful and maybe even harmful. It causes too many assumptions and generalizations that aren't valid classifications or often even close to it. This is a good example. Personalities are complex. People can be introverted or extroverted. They can also have personality disorders and deficiencies independent of the two. I think generalizing and pigeon holing either introverts or extroverts does them a disservice. Above all, people are incredibly malleable and adaptable. Most people are somewhere in the middle, or go through several states of personality based on their experience and stage of life. I know I have.

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mattlondon 12y ago

Not introverted, more like Aspergers or obsessive-complsive I would think. This description covers some aspects of introversion, but most of it was not typical introversion. You can be a messy, uninterested, boring and unintelligent slob of an introvert - it doesn't matter. Introversion/Extroversion is not a polar-thing like gender anyway. I dislike it when you do tests/training/exercises or whatever and they declare "You are Introverted" or "You are Extroverted" like it is a single binary option that you can only ever be one of the other. I've always thought of it as more shades of grey (in both directions).

patrickmay 12y ago

Definitely not accurate. My wife is one of the most extroverted introverts I know. She loves spending time with other people and doesn't consider them threatening in the slightest. She just needs her downtime to recover from the energy she expends in being social.